You give my memory way too much credit I'm afraid.

Dosnt McD have a military background ???? and therefore a mindset that states winning the battle isnt important but winning the war is.

Given the various issues surrounding the WCC, it really doesn't provide any true indication of the respective merits of the two teams. The English teams Iincluding leeds) have struggled to compete over the last few years and yet, they have been holding significant advantages. You also have to question the motivation shown by the Australian teams.

I wasn't guessing, I think I've learn to discern what is good and what is exceptional.

TheEagle beat you to writing that.

I don't think that was the point of my post but I agree indeed they are not. One came after actually winning something.

I'm hearing plenty of excuses being lined up which is unfortunate if true. Squad size may well be down to the CEO but squad utilisation and rotation is down to the coach.

Points of Order.

"Sinfield's wish to only play in a certain position". Is this factual or are you simply re-hashing some of Bywater's ramblings? I can't recall anything of this nature being attributed to either Sinfield or his coach. Do you have anything in your archives or have you made that up?

Similarly, you've given Noble's reasoning for bizarrely leaving Sinfield out of the squad in 2004. Again, do you have any direct quotes in your archives or have you made this one up because this is quite bizarre given Sinfield has occupied many different roles for GB/England before, during and after Noble's reign as coach. If Noble really did say that, and I don't believe he did, then he's come up with some nonsense to justify an appalling selection at the time that had more to do with his personal prejudices than benefitting GB.

I'm surprised by Sinfield's comments re: McDermott. I was under the impression that he was a Tony Smith man through and through. Whilst I thought McClennan was popular with the players (at least in his first season or two), I don't recall Sinfield ever saying McClennan (or Powell for that matter) was the best coach he had worked with, unlike Smith and now McDermott.

It would be interesting to know how the other experienced players (especially Peacock, Buderus, Lauitiiti, Webb, McGuire, Burrow etc) rated the different coaches in their respective careers.

And that is basically why we will not be renewing ours after many yrs.

We miss 2/3 games through holidays, Monday night rugby is crap when you start work at 6.00am on a tuesday, and the team only turn up when they feel like it.

We are done with freezing our butts off in february and march watching crap games in february and march.

For £200 (£15.50 per game assuming we make them all) we get to stand for13 games in a rickety old stand with an obstructed view where it impossible to see the whole pitch.

In our house we have been referring to "rip off Rhinos "for many yrs and we have finally had enough.

We felt this way last yr but relented after the amazing play off run. NWin or lose on Saturday that wont happen again.

From now on we pick and choose our games.

I've found this [urlhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2004/oct/19/rugbyleague.trinations2004[/url where Noble talks about Sinfield (and Deacon) being really close and still being part of the set up but nothing to support TVOCs claims.

Then I found this [urlhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_league/3751450.stm[/url where it's much of the same. Interestingly also in this Noble talks about form being important. Obviously not recent form because the Leeds number 6, Sinfield, in the Grand Final the day earlier played the Bulls number 6 off the park. Guess who the Bulls, sorry, now GB, coach picked in the squad? Even if TVOCs claims of what Noble intimated are true (they're not) I wouldn't believe them if I heard Noble say them to me himself.

But I haven't been able to find anything to support what you're claiming TVOC.

PS, I also found this [urlhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2005/mar/25/rugbyleague.leedsrhinos[/url which has nothing to do with the point but I like the journalist stating Sinfield proves a point to Noble as the Rhinos stuff the Bulls in 2005, with Sinfield at 6 again.

And so a lesser tribute given to Bluey after we won the GF, than given to Big Mac for getting to the Final. (after of course getting us the the CC final two years on the trot, winning last years GF and this years WCC)



Excuses are for failure. Forgive me for reminding you of BM's run of success. CC finalists and SL Champions in his first year. WCC winners, CC finalists and Grand Finalist yet again in his 2nd year and getting his team to peak at three different time this season including knocking out the very structured league leaders twice in knock out semi finals. For your term "excuses" you should read handicaps!

To continue to argue against the evidence of BM's success and Sinfield's very strong endorsement shows more than a hint of stubborn predudice and a closed mind.

If he could get the team to play every week at the same level and still get to all the finals then he would join the Gods but perfection is usually out of reach of mere mortals so why don't you cut him some slack?

In his handling of his first choice team, Brian McDermott understands the meaning of the saying 'Form is temporary......Class is permanent' and has applied it with some success.

OK well, ta-ra then.

You're failure to find something I remember being said at the time doesn't mean it wasn't said. My failure to provide evidence of said comment at this moment means people will have to judge for themselves the liklihood or otherwise of it actually being said.

The comment I recall was open to interpretation but Noble was basically saying that Sinfield had intimated which position he was interested in playing that International series and he hadn't included him on the basis that he had other players in mind ahead of him for that role.

As you'd imagine a coach would like to have the versatility that Sinfield could bring my interpretation was that there may have been an element of intransigence shown by the player which (again perhaps) was not appreciated by the coach.

The context I placed them in would I hope represent failure to the club, it's coaching staff and most importantly the playing staff.



Two fifth places should have provided the handicap such a finish deserves, unfortunately for the credibility of the Regular Rounds it doesn't under this Play-Off format.



There's that word again.

I can only assume your definition of success differs from mine. I'm not surprised by Sinfield's comments as I'm sure he's aware of the criticisms levelled at his current coach, indeed the comments may have been sparked by the negativity.

Perhaps McClennan wasn't subject to such noises as a former International coach that had won an International series including the nilling of Australia in the final and Leeds finishing 2nd and League Leaders while retaining their Championships becoming the first coach to do so in the SL Era and the first coach to win a WCC and Grand Final in the same season. Lots to be negative about there?



Unfortunately you've built an impression of my postings that doesn't allow you to recognise when I post compliments.

To provide something shorter, I wouldn't swap finals and trophies for consistent league performance, but I think you can get a little nearer to having both than we have this year and last. That should be the goal. Not least because, contrary to all moaning to the contrary, I still think the route to Old Trafford is much easier form 1st or 2nd.

Said or reported? If reported there would be a trace.

I have no recollection of ever reading or hearing anything similar. I have no recollection of these Noble comments ever being referred to by anyone else on here until you have done it now.

There is little likelihood of it being said, in my judgment,

And it weakens even further. Now it's a comment open to interpretation.

I'd stick to statistics in future rather than attempting to recall comments from eight years ago that may or, more likely, may not, have been said and even if the former are subject to interpretation.

That is Gotcha and Bywater territory.

How about an easier task TVOC? Instead of providing something to support your recollection and interpretation of alleged comments Noble made 8 years ago why not provide something from this season or last to support your comment that Sinfield has expressed a wish to "only play in a certain position".

I'm very bored of people coming on here telling us how they won't be going anymore because the regular season performances aren't good enough. If people don't want to go anymore then just go it and stop coming on here threatening to do it acting like you're making a stand against some shocking injustice and you've seen the light and others should follow. And the whole rip off of money, lets face it £15.50 a game if you have a ST isn't exactly bank busting, yet people go on about value for money as if they're forking out £100 a game.

I'm very bored of people telling other people what they can and cannot post on a rugby league message board. Particularly when they're posting about attending or not attending rugby league matches.

If you're bored with reading those posts, don't read them and, even better, don't reply to them.

To be fair G Sinfield has said on numerous occasions his favoured position is 6 now im not gonna dig up old interviews but i do know he's stated that as his preference many times.

[I wouldn't swap finals and trophies for consistent league performance,
El D i dont think anyone would but from my own pov playing sh## mid season doesnt mean we'll always come good in August/September i just had the opinion we could and should have been better in those games win lose or draw.

A player stating his favoured position is a million miles from what TVOC claims is happening.

Fair do's!

Didn't TELL anyone they couldn't write about something, but perhaps instead of saying it on here clearly looking for others approval they should write a letter to GH explaining why if they really want to highlight why they won't be attending until things improve. I also find it laughable when people compare their 'effort' of turning up to a game and watching to the effort of players who actually go out and put their bodies on the line every week. It's a bit hard to ignore them when so many threads are allowed to drift into the same subject time and again.

It's a Rhinos message board. Someone posts their views about Rhinos matches, positive or otherwise.

It's exactly what the message board exists for.

Back in the day, they could have thrown their season tickets at Alf davies from the Paddock. Now, we have Southstander.

Reported as IIRC a directly attributable comment by Noble - speech marks and all that grammar type gubbins wraped around it for good measure. I can't say for certain but there is a reasonable possibility that the comments were featured in a YEP article sometime after the Grand Final, so - October 2004. It's also likely I read the comments via the YEP website at that time. Unfortunately I didn't keep a record of and can't recall the URL address (I think it started http but it's only vague after that) and much as I obviously should have I didn't anticipate having this discussion eight years later. D'oh.



Doesn't mean it didn't happen. You might not recall eating several doughnuts last night but it doesn't neccesarily mean it didn't happen although on this occassion it's possible that it didn't either.

You've posted a link to some words from Noble in the Guardian and then to some more on the BBC. Is it not conceivable that they fell short of a verbatim report of what was said on each occasion or perhaps they were from the same occasion ? I'm afraid I haven't bothered checking - I'm happy to accept your word that they don't include the sentiments I've alluded to. Is it possible though that a YEP reporter with more space to fill than either of your sources could have incorporated more of the noise coming out of the National coach and that those noises may have included a reference to Sinfield expressing a preference and Noble seeing him outside the numbers available to him ?



Interpretating comments is what we do on here every day. As you've so far tried to turn up the article and failed my guess is you'd like to see the text so that you can add your own interpretation?

Try the YEP sometime October 2004 - as you've said already there would be a trace.



Perhaps I should but then people might not be as informed as they otherwise could be. What they do with the information and/or opinions is entirely a matter for them of course.

I'm recalling comments made without reference material from eight years ago. Which comments do you believe were not or at least unlikely to have been said?