About the same time Peacock is expected back from injury....tough decision then.

Cross reminds me very much of Mark O'Neill. The way the walk, drives the ball in, he has Mark O'Neill written all over him - he just looks beat up.

I don't know why such a reaction about todays loss has occurred, was it not expected? As soon as the Leuluai injury came about we we're doomed from the off. I don't care who you are, if you arrive to in Warrington's back yard without 3 of your 4 first choice props, a first choice back rower and your stand off your going to lose. Especially after you lost to Quins at home the week before. Call it an excuse but its really just a fact.

McDermott is going to feel the pressure for these results and life won't get much easier with Saints and Wigan on the horizon, I feel sorry for the bloke as he really has been thrown in the deep end. You can try not to jump on Cross' back also as he has come over here naturally with a lot of expectation with him been an import, and expected to lead a pack along with Luke Burgess, not ideal for him thats for sure.

Weren't you the one condemning the team (and BJB in particular) after the Harlequins debacle ?



I have no problem in Leeds losing ...IF they play the basics right by stopping the ridiculous school boy errors of useless defence and hopeless ball retention in conjunction with [iHarlem Globe Trotter[/i play on every attack. Three first choice props or not there are NO excuses for the present lack of the fundamentals within the game.

In fact it's probably an insult to schoolboys.

We need our best and most influential player on for the full 80 minutes.

Key word: Harlequins.




Agreed. No excuse for a lot of silly play, just as last week - which was even worse. But your just not going to beat Warrington with the injurys we have. If its spread across the positions maybe, but no 3 injuries to the first choice props.

On the plus side Burgess carried on his good form. The only prop winning the collision on the Leeds side. Got a lot of game time too.

Please don't use injuries as an excuse, We had 3 1st choice out, We have are fair share of injuries but i am astonished by the strength in depth Wire seem to have.

Well done on the win, but one minor point. How can you have 3 first choice players for 2 positions?

I will re-phrase 3 missing from our 1st choice back line, also missing Anderson, Moz, and Cooper.

Maybe you should look at Leeds strength in depth rather than using injuries as an excuse

Where did I use injuries as an excuse?

That's not entirely correct. In the centres we had, King, Bridge and Atkins missing, these three in our first game all played in the backs together with King on the wing and would do if we were at full strength.

We were also missing two of our big hitters and our 'go forwards' in Morley and Anderson. IT shows the strength in depth Warrington have.

Where's the sense in bringing in a Aussie with a "let me secure my pension" mentality, we'd have been better advised to have kept Ambler (who we signed from Salford remember because nothing was coming through our highly successful academy system) in the first team squad and nurtured him into our front row.

Old Cross or young Ambler now let me spend half an hour thinking about this one.

Straight swap for a departing one .... it's important to use/keep the quota up.

___________

Another intercept, lost ball (Hall) try just before the break, Cross badly done to on the re-start after half time. The errors are crippling and Watkins (I'm afraid to say) is still a defensive liability and worryingly the faults highlighted in his game (twelve to twenty four months ago on here) show few signs of being ironed out .... great final run though shows he's got something.

He's a penalty machine, can you imagine how many penalties we will give away with Cross and Sicknote on the pitch?

Hall's ball retention was terrible as was his effort on Briers for one of their tries. However, that is a one off for Hall.

As for Watkins, as you say, the issues, especially with ball security, remain. He is a talent and given his youth (in terms of 1st team games) we must persist and hope our coaching staff can improve his issues (oh dear).

Don't lose patience with our young English players that you care so much for TVOC. Like you did in 2009 when you congratulated Wigan on signing Gleeson as their right centre and berated us for persisting with Smith as ours (who went on to play a pivotal role in the GF win and earn international honours).

PS, I saw nothing of Broughton in Salford's highlights though I did see that young English right centre you weren't keen on, Gibson, score another try. I will see both in the flesh next Friday.

Who was it that had the 'IF' post re Martin Gleeson at that time?

While you were happy to point and laugh in their direction others could sense a giant re-awakening. There again you also missed Huddersfield as a team on the up so I shouldn't be that surprised.



So you missed his chase back on the Wigan opening try and his excellent play the ball that created a Salford try then?

What did Gibson do that was so noteworthy other than catch the ball and put it down and why did Patten risk the pass anyway? Although these skills might be welcomed in LS6 at the moment. Gibson's major contribution appeared to be rushing out of the defensive line (and missing) allowing a Wigan score .... he'd fit right in to a McDermott defensive structure then.



What you three get up to in your spare time is of little interest to me.

I'm not normally one to nit pick but ..... can you really have three "first choice" centres? shouldn't that be two first choice centres and the preferred second choice?

Maybe you should try reading on then and notice that i did re-phrase and put 3 missing from our 1st choice back line happy now

The coach is to blame for the inept performance last night. Some has mentioned it above but the basics are just not being done at all. In your own half just conceded a couple of tries andwe are chucking the ball all over. 5 drives and a deep kick for field position is as basic as it gets but boy does it work.

When Buderus went off, we fell to pieces and only got back to something more like it when he came back on. The lack of organisation when DB was off was amateur, too many cooks. There must have been 4 different AHB's in one set. Lee smith was getting in the way. A total re-organisation of the back line just to cover Buderus is not the way to go. We were all over.

I have always been a big believer in Lauitiiti but he was poor last night and should be on the bench only. We are missing players, that is not in doubt but that can't be used as an excuse for shocking displays like that.

Brian Mcdermott needs to change the style. back to basics. The attacking rugby will come on the back of a good completion rate. Did i hear some say he said completion rates are not important? oh dear!

I am right behind the team because i don't think their effort is in doubt but there is definitely something wrong with the coaching so far.

Last point; BMc also has to decide on his best 3/4's and stick with the 5 of them and not put the other on the bench. We need 4 forwards on the bench.

I have yet to pass judgement on Brian Mc, I was less than impressed with his appointment and have yet to be impressed by anything I have seen so far.

We took a few games to get going last year and didn't end up having a bad season and the same may be said for this year but so far we've looked unorganised, sloppy and seem to have lost the ability to actually hold on to the ball.

I know we’re only four games into the season but if we carry on playing like we did yesterday it’s going to be one fekking long year.

So, he can chase back (but not catch) try scorers and he can also play the ball.

DAMN IT TO HELL WHY DID WE LET THIS TALENT LEAVE THE CLUB!!!!!!!!

I thought there was a couple of positives for Leeds:

- Burgess - ran with heart, improved game. Filled Kylie's shoes. Just question his ability to do that week in week out. Thought Paul Wood was top draw, big carries - 3/4 quality offloads. He marired the concept of making the metres with a sensible, attacking, offload threat. Leeds please take note!

- Sinfield - made the hard yards when the forwards wouldn't. Lead by example. And he finally kicked a touch liner.



- Ablett - thought he looked strong, considering his early come back.

But there are plenty of negatives, most have been touched on. What springs to my mind:

- Lack of the basics. Awful handling, cut corners, no platform.

- Wellar and Ali starting? A tactic that didn't work. Clarkson is the type of player who should start and Ali/Wellar one of them should have come off the bench.

- Cross, sloppy and unimpressive. We should bear in mind that he's still a rookie!

- Kirke, ineffective and work shy. Shock! Ambler peforms in an earnest manner, it's time he got the chance.

- Wellar, poor. Thought he should have filled in at prop and he could have got his head round a straight up and down game a bit easier. His linking didn't work and threw out a God awful ball which cost us.

The trys either side of half time ended the contest. Leeds can't help but leak points, literally - left, right and centre. To play a brand you need the discipline of the basics to start from. Leeds need to look at themselves and be honest. Mac is feeling the pressure now, God help him Fat Feka's Top 8 Reds turn us over. In the last 2 games Mac didn't really change anything mid-game which looked like turning it round. Don't worry though he has the brain cells of James 'I stick fingers up at Leeds fans but I'm back now so it's all forgotten' Lowes to fall back on.

Before the season started I only asked Leeds to get off to a good start to give us a realistic chance of competing come the back end. It hasn't happened yet and it looks like a carbon copy of last year all over: mixed results/paper over cracks/getting out of jail/bombing etc - I just can't see where the progress will come from short term.

The inclusion of JP, McGuire, TMFMISL, Kylie and Delaney (as a second rower only) would make us significantly stronger and solid. But you can only play with the cards you've got and we've got a couple of Jokers in our deck.

He caught him alright but too late to prevent the try and no doubt was classified as a missed tackle by Opta. Meanwhile the player that blocked his opportunity at Leeds wouldn't have even been in the frame but let's just gloss over that.

Broughton's stats V Wigan on Friday also show that he made 154 meters from 18 hit-ups at an average of 8.56 but it was only against arguably (although I doubt many could really argue convincingly against it) the best team in the comp (just recently) and while playing for one of the least best but let's just gloss over that as well.

Donald's highest return in 2010 was 108 meters (V Salford) and he averaged 67 meters per match during the 16 games he played.

Now I don't mind the Antipodeans but they have to earn their money same as the rest of the players and the very worst case senario is when there very average efforts block opportunities to young English players.

How many hitups per game did Donald manage in 2010? Teams usually attack down the left so I suspect he didn't see as much ball as Broughton who plays on the left.

I have no agenda here, but the info provided so far isn't enough to make a conclusion on.

No amount of stats would be enough for some but here are those requested:

Scott Donald:
2006 - Right - 245 Hit Ups, 28 Appearances, Avg Per Game 8.75
2007 - =#FF0000Left - 260 Hit Ups, 27 Appearances, Avg Per Game 9.63
2008 - =#FF0000Left - 222 Hit Ups, 24 Appearances, Avg Per Game 9.25
2009 - Right - 209 Hit Ups, 24 Appearances, Avg Per Game 8.71
2010 - Right - 143 Hit Ups, 16 Appearances, Avg Per Game 8.94

Whether on the Leeds right or the Leeds left Donald's involvement was fairly consistently around 9 carries per game.

Jodie Broughton:
2009 - 92 Hit Ups, 7 Appearances, Avg Per Game 13.14
2010 - 309 Hit Ups, 23 Appearances, Avg Per Game 13.43
2011 - 49 Hit Ups, 4 Appearances, Avg Per Game 12.25