5 drives and a kick is not working !

I agree you lack quality in comparison to 5 or 6 years ago, but there should still be easily enough class to comfortably be top 8. Cas have played without their most important player, & their leading try scorer half the season, plus the best British FB by a country mile for the whole season yet are in third. Apart from SO Leeds have a cracking back line & some quality in the forwards.

its not just the quality of the players, its the not playing as a team !

In defence of Ferres i think he played the full 80 minutes yesterday? I maybe wrong but don't remember him leaving the field. If correct that is some effort in that heat. He no longer looks out of shape, and while he is not playing like the international second rower we signed, he has improved imo. I admit he set the bar pretty low though.
Regarding Walters, McDermott was criticised every time he selected him on here. Will be interesting if he keeps his place under Sinfield.

There's an easy yardstick to measure the squad by, all you have to do is match our players with those of the top 4 teams position by position, and see how many of ours would make it into the opposition teams. The answer is not many, therefore our squad isn't good enough.

Like I said yesterday, this is going to take 2-3 years to turn this around, and even then only if there is a will to spend a bit of money.

I have been critical of Ferres, but he has been better/solid for kast 4-5 weeks and improving all the time.

I think you are looking at it from the wrong angle there. I was not looking at how many minutes, or even effort. I was talking about negative influence, and that far outweighs the other to me.

Look at the Saints squad. Apart from the obvious Barba, it's pretty much the same one that fatty almost destroyed. The improvement in players like LMS, Fages, Lomax, Richardson, Wilkin, Knowles, Thompson, Peyroux, Morgan this season compared to the last couple shows the difference good coaching can make.

I agree that good coaching can make a world of difference, the example you give is a good one. I think the difference here is that the ability was in most of those Saints players and the coaching brought it out, whereas I question the actual ability of some of ours. Over the next 2-3 years we will likely need up to 10 players of the right quality, from starters to bench to squad, so that's quite some turn around in playing staff.

What negative influences are you referring to?

I think Ferres would need a top class lawyer to defend his contributions to the Rhinos over his period at the club.For me the quicker his exit the better.

Has the team improved absolutely anything since his return? Far from it. The penalties he concedes. The needle to opposition which he never gets the better of, but instead works to our disadvantage. His drinking habits away from the pitch. For me, he is typical of a player who ruins his career through his own actions. I believe the side would improve without him there.

I think an analyst might describe Ferres as displaying symptoms of a narcissist or sociopath. His mannerisms have always shown signs of arrogance & selfishness, to an extent that he has no empathy with others or care of the affect his actions have on others. I have rarely seen a player bomb so many chances near the line by dummying & going himself rather than pass to the overlap. His actions with Huby's wife reinforces that view.

facts are - Too many penalties conceded, unable to play for 80 minutes (turn off at 70 mins each week). Fail to start on time, always giving the opposition ahead start, then a mountain to climb.

is he any worse than jjb or ablett for conceding stupid penalties?

My prediction is we will actually finish 7th on 21 points. We will squeak a win this week then beat Widnes and Salford. Catalans will finish 8th after winning against Salford but losing to Warrington and Wigan, and Huddersfield will finish 9th after losing to Wigan and Cas but beating Wakey.

I'm no great Ferres fan but this is way over the top and patently untrue. Leeds don't create overlaps.

they did yesterday, unfortunately it was only for 10 minutes

2 points for Huddersfield probably won’t see them finishing above Hull KR, with the points difference.

Probably not, but those 2 IMO have earned a bit leeway due to their contribution to the clubs great successes down the years.

The team has not improved since his return but I'm not sure how much blame for that lies with Ferres.
I'm no great fan but not sure to single him out atm is fair. The majority of the team are under performing and confidence is shot. As others have said his penalties conceded are probably no worse than some other players. No idea how he conducts himself regarding drinking away from the pitch but if it is effecting his game I have total confidence that Sinfield would deal with it.
He has been a poor signing overall but he looks fitter than at any other time in his Leeds career.

Grand Final Team 2017 - Walker; Briscoe, Watkins, Sutcliffe, Hall; Moon, McGuire; Singleton, Parcell, Garbutt, Jones-Buchanan, Ward, Cuthbertson. Replacements: Burrow, Ablett, Ferres, Mullally

Team against Cas last Sunday -Golding; T Briscoe, L Sutcliffe, Moon, Hall; Lilley, Myler; Oledzki, Parcell, Singleton, Ward, Ferres, Cuthbertson. Replacements: Walters, Walker, Mullally, Delaney.

That's 11 of the 17. So does the absence of Watkins, Burrow & McGuire really make the difference. !

Last year's GF was an example of the infinite monkey theorem. There can be no other explanation for your lucky victory.

I'm liking 10th. The benefit of 4 home games plus a trip to Canada.

That would require no wins and HKR winning a game !