That last try had three blatant passes. I agree above, that although maybe better overall over 80, it was still yet again a lucky win, and that's two weeks on trot lucky. We seem really just reliant on our one man Parcell, who is way above his team mates. Just like the end of last year, reliant on one man who saved the season.

Bigger tests next two weeks. I said before Leigh game, the first five games were the tests to people's opinions. Four out of five wins is where the optimists would have expected, based on those fixtures, three out of the five is where the rest expected (those tipping just above bottom four), and two would be even worse than last year and gone backwards. We could still end up with four, doubt it, but let's see next two weeks.

It says much about the game when there are almost as many posts about the Cas v Warrington game as there is about the Leeds game.

Pretty grim stuff between two very average sides - I am unsure as to how the standard will improve.

\the defence for the first and last Salford tries was appalling as for the attack the last try came off 2/3 forward passes.

The worry for me was they didn't look fit a number were blowing after 10 minutes including Ward against a quick side I think they would have really struggled. Good performances from Parcell, Keinhorst and Golding the rest distinctly average.

Awin is a win but 2015 style it isn't - next week should be a good gauge of how long McDermott has in charge.

I think second paragraph suggests you are intimating a return to the 2015 style?

Hang on just a moment. I'm an optimist, I tipped us to squeeze into the top 4. I stand by that. But no way on god's earth would away defeats at saints and/or cas come as a surprise, let alone in the early season.

Thursday could get messy if we're not a lot better, granted. But it's winnable and we should target it.

Hang on a minute there actually. The ones predicting Leeds to finish top four had us above Saints and Cas, how can they be expecting that if expecting losses against them. I agree harder games, hence why I said the majority (those outside the top four and sneaking in the eights) would have expected three wins, with probably losses to Saints and Cas.

I was talking more about the fixtures. Last year we lost to Saints away, check, beat Hull KR away (Leigh replaced), check, beat Salford at home, check, lost away to Cas, lost at home to Catalans. So as I said, three wins would be where the majority expect, those that believe top four must have expected four out of those fixtures otherwise there wouldn't possibly be enough in it to finish top four, and two would be a repeat of last year. Four wins is still on, so a good indicator of whether there is improvement or not. I have a sneaky feeling that Cas might just be a little too over confident come Thursday, and push things they may not usually do.

As I posted earlier this is the weakest rhinos squad for years. Has Brian Mac got the ablilty to scrape a top four finish ,this remains to be seen.

You had us down to finish 6th, and behind Saints and Cas mate, which would back up the point I made. You would be in the majority who would have expected three wins.

Not a chance.

I've got Leeds down to finish 4th but half expected us to lose to Saints & Cas away.

Am I still an optimist?

I'm so confused now.

as good as cas are, way ahead of us, they beat an under strength promoted side at home then went to a weaker warrington time at a good time.
I fully expect them to be challenging top two this year but they will have sterner tests

I think there's enough talent to challenge. It's the weakest coaching set up that's the issue.

Hey, it's another win. Much like the Stoke by election for Labour.

On the plus side, Warrington are bottom, Wigan only scraped a win against Widnes and Saints lost to Leigh, so it seems nobody is looking too good at the moment.

I think it's a very tight competition this year. I think there's around 8 clubs that can finish in the top 4. Leeds can, but improvements will need to be made, but if we can speed the game up when we have the ball to allow Parcell to get out of dummy half then we will score a lot of points. I didn't see that much of Seggy before he signed for us, but Parcell looks the better player to me, other than kicking game, I think Parcell has the better all round game.

Two clubs beat the Aussies quite comfortably. Not many in Super League would have.

Warrington, Wigan, Cas, Saints are way ahead of everybody else in the competition, whatever current results. Catalans and Hull, are then a further distance from the clubs below that six. It might be tight up top, but the bottom six will not be pushing into that top six select, unless there is a change to a respective club.

Parcell I agree with you looks very good and a massive plus for us. But with this coach, his selections, his tactics, there isn't a chance of pushing top teams. Change that, and who knows what can happen.

Thursday will be messy for sure , we have no structure . Everyone knew we needed an organising Stand off or Scrum Half . The pack seems lightweight and our tactic of taking 2 points when it would have been our 4th set of six on their line and them cream crackered beggared belief . We are lightyears away from Cas and Wigan plus Wire when Brown plays . Hull despite not being great will probably be 4th . The only improvement from last season is fitness and attitude and that only takes you so far . I was hoping for 5th place because of the poor standard of Super league now it is more likely 6th or 7th . The loss to a poor Saints team was a good indicator to that . No way should a club as big as Leeds not be challenging for top four (and no i do not believe we have a devine right to win everything) .

apart from naming saints, who are worse than us!!!, I agree with that.
saints and us have the same problem, a coach who can't coach

Saints do have a poor coach tad, but they are way ahead of us. They at least have the plays and players who are capable. I am more than confident they will be In the top four regardless.

Correct Tad and as much as i want Leeds to win , sneaking a win against a moderate side at home keeps him in a job

I've said this before to you too Gotcha but i don't see Saints in much of a different boat to us to be honest, i certainly don't see them as any more than a fringe contender.

Personally i think we are way off top 4 as long as this Coaching regime remains in place.
As it stands we are back to where we were before Powell took over in that we need a clear out some quality signings & our very best u19's getting games/Coached & intergtated ready for a challenge in 12mths time.

We need to take those two penalty points when on offer as we have no one to kick conversions. So we are losing a massive amount of points.

Just can not agree , it is a desperate tactic that shows how quickly and how far we have declined and sends out a bad message to the opposition . In my opinion the only time this season we should have gone for two was at Saints with 50 seconds to go in the first half .

I completly agree with you mate it really does show how far we have fallen, that even with players like Watkins,Hall, Briscoe and Moon we are not confident enough to go for it.

But the way we are at the moment with no attacking structure or kicker we need to get points on the board and hope we can hold out.

We never get the 6 points so two penalties is as good as a try.

I suggest that'll be the target, not that we are close, not that we are there.

For the few who therefore can't understand how I can on a seperate thread pick Leeds for a top 4 finish then....

2016 Regular season points scored

11 - Wigan - 455
12 - Leeds - 404

Wigan had the 2nd lowest scoring attack last regular season, were consistently in the top 4 because they weren't conceding many.