Spot on and Wells covered that try quite well at HT.

Again not saying the defence was great, it had its flaws but imo they were more to do with decision making and execution rather than effort.

We've had some pretty poor effort in games this year and I myself said around Easter that the team doesn't look like it has the desire or fight in them to defend their titles. However they have shown a lot more in the last 3 games even if the haven't been able to turn two of those into victories.

I never said there wasn't effort - that is what I would expect, that is the day job. Defending is only part of the game, I didn't see any real desire not to lose no huge hits no huge Kylie types runs to gee the team up. Yes they tackled people over the line - every team in SL does that every week it nothing to write home about IMO.

Desire is "i am not going to drop that high ball" not I am going to repeatedly drop that high ball

So you are saying the player had no desire, and didn't give a tosh about dropping the high ball and it had nothing to do with the quality of kick and that he just wasn't able to? I could accept your view if you thought the player didn't have enough ability to take the kicks, but to think someone can just say 'i won't drop this kick' and he won't drop it, is ridiculous imo.

You are entitled to your opinion - what I am saying is the player had the ability to catch them but not the desire/need to do so.

Why do think he kept dropping the ball - its a mental thing - its what separates the good from the nearly good - they all have the ability why is that some prosper and some don't. Peacock wasn't the most gifted player but you would hard pressed to find a player with a desire to succeed, same goes for Sinfield.

I think the kicks were very good kicks first and foremost, and that even the best of Full backs would have struggled to deal with them. I have stated elsewhere that i am unsure on Golding and his ability overall anyway for that role, but i still believe he was fully committed to taking them, he just couldn't simple as that for me. Hopefully he learns from the experience, can go away and work on that part of his game because you can be sure next time he starts a game at Full back kicks will be raining down on him.

Like i said, i do agree on the whole about the desire issue, but i do think that has improved of late. we just haven't been quite good enough to get the result and that imo is entirely down to the structure, or lack of, that the team is playing with right now especially in defence.

I actually think the fact that Golding kept trying to catch those difficult kicks really shows some desire. I have seen plenty of fullbacks drop a bomb and then let the rest bounce or leave them to your winger etc.

Lilley actually had eyes on Ta'i but didn't get out of marker fast enough or hard enough. He did get to Ta'i well before the line but the tackle was weak and Ta'i walked out of it pretty much unimpeded.

50 seconds .... that's how long Leeds had to wait to see if the full-back was going to command the kicks coming his way.

Good news, Leeds don't have to face Danny Brough at the John Smith's stadium every week .... just last week and this.

Hopefully a different fullback. Mind you Brough can kick them at wingers as well.

Have you ever played ANY sports at all in your life because pointing at errors and claiming they're down to a lack of desire would suggest not.

I've seen players makes mistakes in GF's and CCF's. I've seen players in both team and individual sports make errors in major finals and tournaments. I watched Jordan Speith last month, a proven talent and major winner have a complete nightmare on one hole at the Masters.....was it because he didn't have the desire? I've seen both Peacock and Sinfield miss tackles, knock on and miss kicks in a Grand Final, was that down to desire?

Well I am entitled to my opinion and I feel sure you have never played fullback in your life. Had you done so you would never have made the above statement. He dropped, or failed to get to, three very difficult and very high bombs in swirling conditions which spun away from him at the last moment. This was IMO obviously not a mental thing as he never stopped going for them and caught an absolute beauty just before half time which showed his mental toughness and for which his coach sought him out to pact him on the back at half time.

Maybe you could say a more experience fullback would have taken some of them but maybe not. As I have pointed out our MOS has dropped a few this year and has shown a tendency to hang back and let others have a go this year - now that could be a mental thing as you put it.

Well funny you should say - I did play FB at school not very well - a lack of pace being but one issue.

Nigel Whitehouse who I think went on to play for Halifax was the hooker in the very same school team - that is a long time ago.

If you had the right desire you'd have been faster

Nobody would ever question JP's effort or desire, but I've seen him miss tackles, drop balls and throw out dopey offloads. Same with Sinfield.

A lack of effort or desire is where you end up just letting the ball bounce because you don't fancy it. Don't think anyone could seriously accuse Golding of that on Friday.

i can't believe some of the pessimistic views regarding jordan lilley on this forum
some folk seriously need to give their heads a shake and realise just what a fantastic talent we have on our hands here

jordan will make mistakes and make wrong decisions during games,but he won't go into his shell and disappear during games like some players do

Stick this kid behind a dominant pack of forwards and in a side playing with confidence and then you will see just how good he is

i hope he makes some posters eat their words down the track

So do I.

As someone who played fullback quite a bit at a reasonable you sometimes you can't catch a thing, other days you take everything. The problem is mental, I don't think that's the same as it being desire

Never underestimate the stupidity of some SouthStander posters.

How are you aware of this phenomenon?

How long did it take Golding to not fancy the high ball on Friday? Watch the opening set of six, I timed it at around 50 seconds.

No doubt the apologists will correct me with a 'it wasn't Golding that didn't fancy the ball it was the ball that didn't fancy him' or 'it was blown off course by the el nino'

Ok so let's broaden this debate out a bit maybe desire is the wrong word perhaps will/determination would be a better way of putting it.

Examples of that would be some of Hardaker's last ditch tackles last season, Peacock's will to get fit for a Wigan CC game at Headingley, Sinfield kicking the goal in 2003 CC semi and perhaps most pertinent of all was Sinfield's tackle on Lomas in the GF that saved the game. These are not examples of great skill these are just examples of players going the extra mile to make things happen. Do you think Golding showed that level of commitment against Huddersfield?

As for the comment some days you can catch and some days you can't - these are elite athletes.

If we accept most players that get signed by top pro clubs have outstanding ability for their age group what determines those who make and those who don't. JJB is not the most gifted rugby player - so why has he had such a successful career whilst others with more ability have fallen by the way side - I would suggest it is desire/will to succeed.

While I agree with most of what you've said in that post Sal, especially regarding desire separating the great from the good etc, I think this is something that is measured over the course of a career and not questioned over a few rookie mistakes.

At the end of the day I would have been more worried if Golding had have stopped trying to catch those kicks. I think he showed a desire to make up for his mistake, unfortunately this can often lead to further errors, your own example JJB often can be accused of showing too much desire to make up for mistakes, shooting out of the line and causing other problems.

I think when you start making those sorts of mistakes you need mental strength to get over them, and I think this is a better way of thinking about it than the term desire which you have used. All the best players make mistakes, it is whether they are strong enough to overcome them.

For me desire is something different, and if you are questioning Goldings desire, then you are putting him in the same category as Achurch which imo is unfair.

To answer your question did Golding show "that level of commitment against Huddersfield" my answer is yes he did. You are comparing a young player with very little senior experience with internationals JP, Sinfield and Hardaker at their very best yet Golding after a terrible confidence sapping start overcame this and showed his desire/will/determination and commitment with an tremendous take just before half time and again with a one on one try saving tackle and at no stage kept out of the game or shirked involvement.

Brough is the best in the business at the high bomb which in certain circumstances are very hard to judge because of great height, spin and stadium conditions. A young player like Golding would never have experienced this before and will be a better player for having done so. It is generally understood that you learn most from the experience of getting things wrong and it is precisely why the players that you name became so good and youngsters have to be allowed to make mistakes as they gain their own experience. I presume when you started out in work you never made a mistake and from what you say about your schoolboy fullback experience you never dropped a high bomb because you were too slow to get there despite heaps of desire



There are certainly one or two senior players that you could fairly accuse of having shown a lack of desire this season but IMO this is the last thing you can level at any of the youngsters.

I am not having a dig at Goulding at all, so put that on the table, but I think this rubbish about Brough and kicking and the stadium being an excuse for his errors is really poor. Had he never played fullback before, then hell yeah, can understand it a bit. But he has been playing the position for years, and the simple fact is he dropped his @r5e and made the mistakes. There is no excuses, you learn from it and get on with it. I don't think it was down to desire, which I do think is a problem for the team, I think it was a lack of confidence based on how poor the team as a whole are currently.

Could you be more specific? Is it just Achurch or Achurch and someone else ?