=#FF0040[iKing Whino wrote:
do tired players make more errors, or less errors, in your opinion ?[/i


My answer is that it is more likely they make more errors. However this can only be an opinion in the absence of proof.

As I said in the context of this game your question is irrelevant as those that made the errors which I mentioned were not the same players that it is being suggested should have been rested for longer with the exception of Aiton who was interchanged. Anyway IMO Sinfield was better on balance at acting half back and as a goal kicker when he came on, although I believe he was mistaken to take the 2 points rather than push for 6 points when Cas were looking rocky.

JP and Cuthbo did not let the side down and to suggest that resting them in favour of Yates and Walters would have saved the game or somehow would have prevented errors made by the backs is nothing more than a fancyfull theory. We let in more points when we were 'fresh' in the first half and just after half time (ie 24 out of 31 points) than when we were 'tired' later in the second.

Ok I accept the point that if JP & Cuthbo were both 'fresher' they perhaps could have gained more metres late in the game but it is pure speculation to suggest this would have changed the result. And therefore you should also accept an equal speculation that had Yates and Walters come on earlier then we could well have gone further behind during this period.

That 4 others share your speculative view in no way alters, or trumps, the fact that it was an accumulation of player errors that cost us the game. That others wish to try and use this 'if only' hypothesis to blame the coach and somehow excuse those players that made the errors is up to them but it doesn't wash with me.

It was most unfortunate that so many of these errors led directly to a Cas score each time but such is sport. I am sure our players will be honest with each other and realise they have let themselves, the coach and the supporters down. There is a lot of work to do but I am hopeful that with Kylie back and looking more like his old self and with a fit JJB, Delaney, Moon, Hardaker and Briscoe returning we can regain some form for the end of season. But if this were to happen you would have nothing to Whino about!

I am sure our players will be honest with each other and realise they have let themselves, the coach and the supporters down.
When will the Coach be honest with the players and fans that he has let them down AGAIN with poor player selection ,poor in game management & no tactical response when we are under the cosh?

Handley had plenty of time to catch the ball. He misjudged the flight and failed to get under it which is why he spilled the ball. Call it bad judgement, technique or what ever you like - but it was an his error. As was his failure to pass at the right time which cost us a try earlier in the game. Now we can of course have sympathy with him because of his age and inexperience but he has shown a lack of basic rugby passing skills and positional play on defense which he has to improve on.

Ok coach please tell me your player selections and explain why yours would have been won the game? And I would love to know your better game management plan and just how and when you would have responded tactically when we were under the cosh?

You really do not understand the limitations that a coach has to influence play after kick off. It was not McDermott that passed forward, or missed a tackle or dropped the ball. The players that made these errors were not the props that you wanted to interchange. The most expensive mistakes were in the first 20 minutes. Is this when you would have introduced the game saving Messrs Yates and Walters?

The coach and the CEO have a joint responsibility to build an adequate 25-man squad. Whose fault is it that numbers 21 and 22 in that squad either aren't good enough to be trusted to take the field, or simply aren't trusted without reason?

Nice to see all the team enjoying a day out at the races after that bag of last night, sucker punch to everyone spending all there hard earned money going to watch them

Yeah sportsmen should be locked in a dungeon for the next few days after a loss. Suppose we shouldn't feed them either and hit them with whips.

Don't be childish.

Nah they should be running up and down hills for hours each day, like what they did in't gud old days.

why are we the only club not to have an assistant coach in SL ?

No must be more severe. Take their kids off them until they put in a performance deemed suitable by those whose money is "hard-earned". I hope Jamie Peacock wasn't at the races today because that lazy bugger doesn't know a thing about earning his wage with hard effort.

As long as they didn't ask handley to hold the kitty. 'oops sorry lads I think I've dropped it'

Indeed.
Sky is on mute now fed up of listening to stevo. 3 highlights for me George Williams for MOS, this game has the same intensity as the SOO and creaming his pants in general over Ben flower.
Wonder what perls he will come up with in "the second stanza"

You missed it, he was over the moon when they utlilised the second phase and dummy runner.

Well Stevo had much more time to talk in the last 20 minutes because Phil Clarke must've had to leave early because I don't recall hearing him in that last quarter. I wonder why.

To be fair to Clarke I thought he was pretty impartial in that game. Sadly the same couldn't be said for Terry "everything sounds amazing" O'Connor wearing his Wigan shirt and Stuart "I just can't stop making stuff up" Cummings backing Silverwood at every opportunity.

Both Yates and Walters were only on the bench because of the injury crisis. Walters showed great promise last year and I still think he could make it, however he has shown no form in recent games neither has Yates so it is a judgement call for the coach with good reason IMO. Do you keep your best players out there who you know can put in long minutes with high tackle counts, carries and offloads or do you risk the out of form 2nd reserves when you are chasing the game?

You obviously felt that Yates and Walters would have broke through the gain line with clever offloads and smashed messrs Millington and Lynch out of sight.

We have not been able to pick a full strength team for many weeks now so the coach has had to rely on JP & Cuthbo to carry the burden up front and IMO they have not let him down. The cap does not run to an all star 25 man squad so it is understandable that there will be one or two down the pecking order who are regarded as work in progress and yes that may mean the coach does not trust them in certain game situations but will give them game time in other circumstances.

Not at all. I said members of the squad "either aren't good enough to be trusted to take the field, or simply aren't trusted without reason". It's probably the former. I don't think Yates is good enough, and Walters appears to have gone backwards from last year.

I think you missed my point about squad-building and who you think might be responsible for the failures there?

If we had a bench of Sinfield/Leuluai/Bailey/Kirke against Castleford then I'm certain the latter two would've gotten much more game time than Yates and Walters.

But we got rid to please the fans even though it meant the coach losing two players he trusted to put on the pitch without replacements for them being signed. Granted they had their faults but they got on the pitxh rather than sat untrusted on the bench, I'd take the former over the latter and that's why we're struggling to rest forwards right now and look low on numbers.

What's that saying, something along the lines of if you listen to the fans you end up sitting with them.

As much as they weren't everybodies cup of tea it was a very poor decision based on fan pressure to get rid of two props post season.

I'm sure Bailey wasn't released because of fan pressure.

I'm sure you're wrong. Might've been issues around Easter but you don't give him good minutes in the cup semi and final and have him start the next few games with Leuluai on the bench if those 'rumours' of a falling out were long lasting.

Shouldn't believe every rumour you hear on here when common sense proves otherwise. Much like the McDermott has fallen out with Sinfield for retiring rumours when he wasn't picked......that one seems to die a death when it became apparent he was rested for the cup like I said all along. Cue him dropping to the bench just before the next cup game.

I did not miss your point, but I do have trouble understanding your demand for recruitment perfection. In sport it is difficult enough for all your signings to work out even when they are top stars but when they are young players still learning their trade there will always be some that fail to make it.

Your comment about not being trusted to take the field is either very naive as it fails to understand that different circumstances call for different use of subs or you are just using this as part of your ongoing dislike of the coach.

Can you not accept that both Yates and Walters were on the bench due to the injuries to better players. Although you may not agree with BM he does have valid logic in putting his trust in his better players. Had he had the likes of JJB, Delaney and Achurch on the bench he would have been able to rest some of his forwards for longer. But he did not and in the very very unlikely event that your were the coach what would have been your decision given your comments about Yates and Walters?

In the words of the Irishman asked to give directions to the train station "well, I wouldn't start from here".

I think you're overestimating the degree that a few posters on an internet forum amounts to "fan pressure". I don't recall anti-Bailey chants at Headingley or marches on GH's house to get rid of Kirke (G1 might have held a vigil, I don't know)

Either way, any pressure there might have been from fans was to *replace* players not simply cut them, so the board hardly acted on that.

Ok then who would you have had on the bench given our injuries?