Talk about clouding the sky... both the semis and finals are played on a neutral ground so this argument is completely irrelevant. The route to the final has no bearing on the final itself. How can it?

Just out of interest William, could you post the teams that are considered whiping boy rabble?

For me, home or away only matters when playing decent teams or French anyway. Home ve Oldham or away, its still a walkover.

I think the Leeds view that they have had 'hard' draws is based on getting SL opposition rather than Championship when the odds are against it in the early rounds. Its all relative though as anyone barring a top team should see Leeds progress, I think people would like to see Leeds face a team they can rest players for, but hey life isn't like that.

Over the past decade? Every SL club apart from Leeds, Wigan and St Helens. Bradford up until 2007 but not since. Warrington from 2010 onwards.


In that regard, Leeds have been drawn at home every time... Wigan 3 times, St Helens twice. And they drew a French team at home. I guess those draws could be described as randomly fortunate.


Correct, but on the 7 occasions in the last decade that Leeds have drawn non-SL opposition, they've still been drawn at home 5 times out of 7. Again, more randomly fortunate than randomly unfortunate, wouldn't you agree?


Only in the opening (4th) round would that the case where there are 13 possibilities of drawing SL opposition (38% chance) and 18 possibilities (62% chance) of drawing non-SL opposition. During the last decade, Leeds have drawn non-SL opposition first up on 3 occasions out of 10.

The next round (5th) the odds change depending on the draw and results of the previous round. In 2014 and 2012, Leeds were presented with a 47% chance of drawing non-SL opposition. In 2013, only a 27% chance of drawing non-SL opposition presented itself. In 2011, only a 13% chance of drawing non-SL opposition presented itself.

In 2012, a 14% (or 1 in 7) chance of drawing non-SL opposition presented itself at the Quarter Finals stage of the competition. And it was Leeds who drew Leigh.


Modern day fans of Super League have certainly become accustomed to accepting mediocrity and dross. In fact, they've become so accustomed to it over the years, it's almost as if they welcome as many low-intensity fixtures during the season as possible where their team can rest players. It's an utterly bizarre mindset! Super League fans really are a moronic collective

Well exactly - you have just contradicted yourself there W.E. If the SL is as mediocre and dross as you say then this whole debate is a waste of time - you may as well just be looking at games people have had v Wigan, Saints and Wolves post-2010. If the rest is as bad as you say, surely the likes of Leigh are no 'easier' than the likes of 'Ull, Cas, Salford or Catalans.

So which is it?

Be careful here - the entire debate so far has been with reference to the CC - Billy has thrown in his SL opinion as an aside, don't get drawn in to one debate and reference the other, William is too clever to let you get away with that.

I would argue that Wigan could be exempted from top team status for a few of the years, whether we played them in the cup that year is for someone else to find out. Also, interesting that last years away trip to the league leaders shield winners was not counted as a top team. Did they not make it onto your list as they weren't proven enough, or that it didn't fit in with your agenda

I think what your post suggests to me is that the draw favours us in some ways (more home games than awstatistically expected), and less favourably in others (fewer lower league opponents than statistically expected).

I don't care against whom we've been drawn & whether that's lucky/unlucky or fixed, all I know is that in over 25 years of supporting Leeds I've never ever seen us pick up the cup in person.
I've seen us lose it too many times to recall but the one time we won in 1999 I wasn't there to see it.
Every other argument/discussion/debate/wind-up is irrelevant to me.
Please let's get to Wembley this year, win the sodding thing & let me be there to witness it.
I don't give a fig who we beat on the way or there.

as is every random draw.Its either Randomly fortunate or randomly unfortunate.

No.

Really.

Is Billy Eve even a Rugby Fan ?

I think Leeds record for reaching semi finals (neutral venue) in the last decade is 2nd only to Saints

Congratulations on the thread btw, I bet you reached a semi getting to 11 pages

As a life long Leigh fan, I was lucky enough to see us pick up the cup at Wembley in 71 against yourselves, against all the odds. I think the odds in the this cup tie may be a bit more against us though. Lety's just hope we don't totally disgrace ourselves. I don't think you have anything to worry about OF. You'll see them pick up all the silverware this season I think.
By the way, I think our fans may be able to drink more beer than yours.

I would suggest both the 2005 and 2006 seasons considering Wigan's failure to make the play-offs along with a rather unusual record of winning only 2 out of 6 regular season SL fixtures against Leeds during that time. They had arguably returned as contenders in 2007 beating Leeds 3 times out of 4 that season which included two victories at Headingley (one of them in the CC).


I've never been of the opinion that Huddersfield are genuine contenders for either the SL title or the CC. It's up to others if they wish to recognise the League Leaders Shield as a certificate bearing Huddersfield's authenticity as a top team when other clubs near the top weren't showing much enthusiasm for finishing 1st. It could be argued that certain clubs went out of their way to rest players and not give a toss during the last third of the regular season last year... Wigan in particular.


Taking all factors into account, the CC draws over the past decade have randomly favoured Leeds to a large extent. The favourable 69% home draw advantage allied to the hugely advantageous 100% home draws against top SL teams like Wigan and St Helens more than outweighs the minor inconvenience of having to face whipping boy SL rabble opposition more often than non-SL opposition.

If you're a fan of Charlie Cairoli, at least spell his name correctly.

Correct.
Leeds share that 2nd spot over the past decade with Wigan.

St Helens 7 CC Semi Finals
Leeds 5 CC Semi Finals
Wigan 5 CC Semi Finals


I believe my randomly generated thread has almost served it's purpose

I've always got on with Leyther's ,but I don't think your well deserved 1971 cc win was against the odds.Leigh had a very good team that season finished 4th just behind Leeds and when Leeds went into the game minus the tragic Shoebottom Alan Smith and Ray Batten made you favourites.Enjoy your beer in Leeds

Funnily enough, Leeds were randomly drawn at home twice in the CC that year too (Oldham 1st Round, St Helens 2nd Round) and on the rare occasion they were desperately unfortunate missing out on a random home draw in the Quarter Finals, even that away trip was only a couple of miles away at Bramley



On a Bramley note, I still recall mates of mine (Bramley fans back in the day) who were never shy in reminding me that Bramley players Jim Fiddler and Geoff Clarkson contributed to the stuffing of Leeds at Wembley in 1971

Now you really are trolling!

Hey, why don't you compile a table showing those credible opponents and Leeds results. Like you were doing in 2011 and 2012 showing how bad Leeds were against such credible opposition until, well, you, know, they took the oomph out of that particular troll for you by winning the competition.

I dont think that was William but I do recall someone called swiftcorn saying similar

[i"It's a tired, over-the-hill squad at Leeds that's been in decline for several seasons. The amount of indiscipline they are exhibiting is a reaction from a squad of players who were used to winning silverware and having things their own way but no longer are. They all know this, but it's easier to whine, chelp, niggle, get penalised, blame the ref, blame anyone or anything but themselves. They are no longer fit for the purpose.

The time for sentiment is over.

Reason must prevail instead.

This squad is finished as a competitive entity and there should be no further contract renewals for any of them.

It's time to move on."[/i

You have called all fans of modern day SL morons,You have intimated that the CC draw is rigged to favour Leeds .Now as I have said before if you trolled like this on a certain other forum you would be banned for disrupting the whole forum , but for libelous comments.What was the point of that last one?to quote you "NO REALLY"

You have called all fans of modern day SL morons,You have intimated that the CC draw is rigged to favour Leeds .Now as I have said before if you trolled like this on a certain other forum you would be banned not only for disrupting the whole forum , but for libelous comments.What was the point of that last one?to quote you "NO REALLY"

Guffaw etc. no, really

I suppose that's why it's called the 'LUCK of the draw', right?

With me living out of the area I don't see many live games so I come on here to read the opinions of those who do.This Eve character is disrupting the forum.Why I don't know

By william eve's argument if leeds drew

Saints (h)
wigan (h)
warrington (h)

It would be considered a luckier draw than

batley (a)
hunslet (a)
rocahdale (a)

Because they are all home games.

Agendas.