It was cold numb nuts!!

You'd bring a tear to a glass eye Heron. No really!

There is a time for nostalgia in the World, but sadly out on a rugby league pitch is not the place for it.
If there was any merit in your reasoning, we'd all be cheering on Bobby Charlton and co this summmer instead of giving Rooney his chance.

Disco has had an excellent career, and his place in Leeds folklore is assured, but even the most anal of fans, realise that every sportsman has only a limited shelf life before the next generation takes over.

And the bull$h1t is still flowing I see.

Get a grip

It is not Bulls41t but simple fact

Danny is a class above matt and then some, yes matt has played his heart out for the club and i respect that but he is nowhere near as good as danny at the moment. Players and teams should always be picked on form, and at the moment danny should be playing 80 mins and matt shouldn't be in the team.

Some people need to eat humble pie, some people doubted Buderus, bloody unbelievable, I'll give you a tip, enjoy his whilst he is here because if we have just Diskin in the side you might just realise how comparing a Lada to a Ferrari is a not too clever.

As I said earlier on this thread there is no substitute for class - Buderus is class

Seems the Brains Trust on here think they're better coaches than a guy who has won the Grand Final in each season he's been here and upset all the odds for New Zealand to win the Tri-Nations and works with Buderus and Diskin on a daily basis.

Still, what does Bluey know? He's just sentimental.

Possible the coach knows what works best but it is the effect on other prominent players that prevents him making the correct decision - serious decisions are seldom one dimensional

Buderus is on a different planet to Diskin

Not when it comes to grand final winners rings

I agree Diskin should be dropped and Buderus should play the full game. The problem we've got is that neither hooker is an impact player and we look a miles better side when Buderus is on. Diskin is being brought on for the sake of it when we dont need him and then we look a worse side when he's on. Bluey needs to grow some balls and do the right thing by dropping Disko. When he came on last night he gave Wakey some impact, his first run from DH he knocked on and then his first tackle he gave a penalty away. He has been a legend for us but he's way past his best and his best was still behind Buderus now. He's slow anyway but then he makes things even slower by coming out of DH with the ball and then passing or going one side of the ruck and passing the other, he needs to just pass straight away when he picks the ball up in one movement but he doesn't. I hope we release him and give Buderus a new 2 year deal. I know alot of people will disagree because of there loyalties to Disko but releasing him would be the best thing for us. He cant even make a poor England side and the likes of Higham, Clarke etc have been ahead of him in the pecking order.

That's like saying "not when it comes to NRL premiership rings and Dally M medals" if someone was saying Diskin is on another planet.
Think about the future not the past. We all want the best for the future of the side and keeping Diskin because he's won 4 GF's is stupid. Buderus is way better in every part of the game.

Quote ="LS14 RHINO"I agree Diskin should be dropped and Buderus should play the full game. The problem we've got is that neither hooker is an impact player and we look a miles better side when Buderus is on. Diskin is being brought on for the sake of it when we dont need him and then we look a worse side when he's on. Bluey needs to grow some balls and do the right thing by dropping Disko. When he came on last night he gave Wakey some impact, his first run from DH he knocked on and then his first tackle he gave a penalty away. He has been a legend for us but he's way past his best and his best was still behind Buderus now. He's slow anyway but then he makes things even slower by coming out of DH with the ball and then passing or going one side of the ruck and passing the other, he needs to just pass straight away when he picks the ball up in one movement but he doesn't. I hope we release him and give Buderus a new 2 year deal. I know alot of people will disagree because of there loyalties to Disko but releasing him would be the best thing for us. He cant even make a poor England side and the likes of Higham, Clarke etc have been ahead of him in the pecking order.'"

Well said that man. As I have mentioned elsewhere McClennan's insistence of bringing on Diskin at the expense of Buderus is going to bite us in the proverbial ass one day and lose us an important match. We've been close a couple of times now.

What you say is correct. Diskin just bloody slows things down and loses our momentum.

Quote ="Puig-Aubert"Seems the Brains Trust on here think they're better coaches than a guy who has won the Grand Final in each season he's been here and upset all the odds for New Zealand to win the Tri-Nations and works with Buderus and Diskin on a daily basis.

Still, what does Bluey know? He's just sentimental.'"

Come on...remove the blinkers. Convince me or others of what Diskin offers over Buderus on the field of play with regards to their respective PRESENT (without mentioning GF rings and past glories) ...ranges of skills.

As Serge mentions elsewhere McClennan probably has player politics to contend with...what's your excuse ??

I think both players have their pros and cons. I strongly disagree with the fact the game is slowed down when Diskin is on the pitch. He has much more pace than Buderus (I realise pace isn't really that necessary for a hooker but it helps). Diskin is an extremely clever player. How many times have we seen him pick the ball up nd run straight at an offside player for the penalty? On the other hand I think Buderus is much better in the defensive line, easily making more tackles than Diskin.

Long story short - Buderus is better on defence, Diskin better on attack. That's the reason I think Bluey has both in the squad. If things go wrong for us in the game he has this option. If we need to gain a bit of momentum stick Diskin on. If we need to slow it down then Buderus. This is purely my opinion. I don't expect many people to agree with it

You have quite clearly never seen both players play for Leeds. You have a completely insane view on it.

If anything Diskins best quality is defence. Buderus on the other hand is quite superb in attack, and yes Buderus is absolutely miles faster than Diskin.

David might well have a point with regards to selection decisions being based upon more than on field performances. Its an important part of team selection and man management, with a team being more than a sum of it's parts. Unfortunately, I don't think you (and possibly David though not so certain on that) really understand that.

As for on pitch performances, statistically there is little to pick between the players, though I believe they are different types of player anyway. Diskin is far more likely to run from dummy half and/or, draw defenders and offload. Buderus is more likely to put in a crisper pass direct from the ruck.

I don't have to convince you of the merits of Diskin over Buderus. Neither I, nor you, select the team. Only one of us would want to change the current team.

Personally, I'm happy to see both in the 17. It seems our highly successful coach shares that view.

What is interesting to ponder is why he might think that way when such luminaries as yourself don't.

Leaving aside David's suggestion that completely replacing Diskin with an ageing antipodean former superstar might have a detrimental effect on team morale what else might there be?

Danny Buderus will be 33 next birthday. Not that many players in the top flight at that age (and interetsingly people are suggesting he's offered a new 2 year contract). Maybe, just maybe, he'd be incapable of playing 80 minutes week in week out?

Maybe, just maybe, he'd not be able to play at current standards if he was asked to play more than 40 minutes a game? That Diskin spelling him is what allows him to play well in short bursts?

Maybe the coach believes that Diskin offers the versatility of operating in the backrow for short periods, spelling other players rather than just Buderus.

Or maybe, the experienced and successful coach sees the two players' performances rather differently to armchair coaches?

That may well be true (for the moment) but I dont think he (Buderus) could do 80 mins week in week out.

I don't think you get much inaccurate with your post Rob, and I think you put it really well, but I do dissagree with your view and still think there is a touch of sentimality behind it. I am pretty convinced, but perfectly open to be shot down on it, that If it was another player in Diskins boots with the exact same playing ability but without the GF winners rings, that you would not hold the same view you do now.

I think you are quite right to question those calling for a 2 year contract for Buderus. But equally I think it would be insane to give Diskin a 2 year contract. If we went with both again for next year, then neither should be given more than 1 year. Both are aged performers and reaching the end of their careers, however one of them is still better than the other ever was.

And whilst I fully understand those defending Diskin to the hilt, and admire the loyalty that the players past deserves, I still can't see how non of you see how in recent matches the team looks far superior with Buderus on the pitch than it does with Diskin on it. It's not as if it is just one or two matches now, it is happening every week now Buderus is playing regularly.

For me it's simply a case of the team comes before individuals. All players will hit an end sometime, no matter how good they are. Sign of good club management is planning for that, and making sure it does not effect the team as it happens. Fans views in that respect should be taken with a pinch of salt.

One thing i think people are over-looking re- Buderus/Disko is at what point in the games they are both on the pitch and who they have to play off and their respective game times.
For instance there are times when Buderus has come off the bench at the 1st set of interchanges when the opposition are naturally slower around the ruck and the major impact of their forwards or the "sting" has been somewhat reduced.
There are also times when Buderus has started and we have taken a good 10/15 minutes to get going whilst the relative packs are battling it out and vice versa for Disko.
At certain times in games the opposition are gonna be on top and have momentum and i think too many people jump in and say thats diskos fault.
A 9 can only play off the platform his pack set and when you look at the wakey game in particular when Buderus returned he was playing off Peacock and Kylie who were imo battering the Wakey pack.
Whereas when he started we were way too slow and behind.
THere's no doubt that Buderus is quality and his vision and distribution is better than Diskos but there are diffrent points in each game when they are playing and the bigger picture i.e momentum,who they are playing off and how well we are playing as a unit need to be considered.
That doesn't mean that Diskin is finished at Leeds nor that Buderus could go the full 80 week in week out and we should ditch Disko.
I personally think it would be a mistake to ditch Disko for an extra yr with Buderus and if he is to stay then we should look to get Mcshane a yr on loan to a SL club ala BjB and retain Diskin also.
You can call it sentiment if you want but i honestly think the bigger picture needs to be considered and Disko should be part of that bigger picture.

And you base that thought on what? His age.....fitness level....desire to compete? Sure, his best days are behind him, but even today he brings more to the table and I suspect that is the reason Bluey continues with the two hooker set up.

Bluey's task is simply to make the best use of the resources available to him, and like all good managers he will have assessed his department and planned accordingly. As a successful coach, I reckon he will have reached the conclusion that to spell Buderus in a match with Disco is the better option, both to extend his career and hit his target of winning another GF. Success, not sentimentallity keeps you in a job.

We have young McShane eager for game time and experience, and if we're to continue with the 2 hooker plan, then for my money next season has to be a Buderus/McShane combo. Disco is too slow and error prone nowadays. His distribution at the PTB is usually a simple lob of the ball from a standing position, and his one trick is the occasional trundle forward in an attempt to get a penalty. His defence is generally good, but sadly for both the guy and ourselves, its a long way from his out standing performances in 2004.

See how stupid it sounds when you translate what you're saying? I'm sure coaches all around SL will be queueing up to take your advice.

Obviously I agree with the likes of "Serge", "LS14 Rhino", "Gotcha" and "BillyRhino" (sorry don't know your real names guys ...and wouldn't presume to use them without asking first anyways).....but all I would ask of the dissenters is that we have an intelligent debate (thank you "Puig-Albert" and "Rhinoms"icon_wink.gif.

However, I still see blinkered sentiment prevailing in those who champion the inferior talent. You're only human I guess.



Normally I am happy to simply read these exchanges and not get embroiled (my wife's continued chagrin in me getting involved in such "unimportant drivel" not least deters me. Lol

)
....however this particular topic has stirred me enough to do so.

Week after week I see our club/coach/supporters persist in a train of thought which is contrary to all of the mounting evidence that stacks up against the persistent folly.
As I persist in exclaiming, I sadly do see it one day soon biting us in the proverbial ass and it losing us a critical crucial match (maybe even at Wembley or OT). Can we continue to take that risk ?

Two years might be too much of a gamble for Buderus;it [icertainly[/i is for Diskin. I agree an extra one year for Buderus (if he will agree to it of course) and McShane given more game time. Let Diskin go.

Two totally different hookers and both have positives. I just think that a lot of people on here often underestimate the work that Diskin does. He is far more effective IMO than a lot give him credit for.