Well put. Spot on.

I'm sure I remember seeing Bluey say that we were going for a much slower start to the season to try and avoid the slump we had mid season last year, someone may be able to post a link. The performances to date certainly reflect that approach.

In that respect we were unlucky to draw Saints in the first round of the CC, I would argue that as disappointing as Sunday was, that performance would have beat most teams in the league. Saints on the other hand are in the position we were in last year with a new coach bringing in new ideas and an eagerness to impress. It will be hard for them to maintain that level of performance all year and I would expect them to have a slump at some point, especially as a lot of their key players are that bit older than ours.

Not sure I agree with Saints not being able to keep that up. Their defence was good, but I think they played well within themselves, and I have seen them be more devastating with the ball before

An excellent post. I'd agree with 99% of that, but i beleive we need a top centre but hey ho. How would you address that lack of destructive running in the forwards? Some one needs to be brought in imo - of a higher priority than a centre.

I see us now in a style of play a lot like the attack under Murray. It isn't about deep runners and crossing lines to make space. It's about short plays trying to punch a hole through the line, and then a back or halfback making something of that space. The Burrow break was a great example - Peacock makes a gap, takes two defenders out and offloads, Burow moves away from the gap to open it up and the back into it. Great when it works as it's hard to defend with it being so much down to just individual ability, but it looks bad when it doesn't work.

Is this, after five or so seasons, finally recognition that McGuire is never a stand off?

That style of play also suites wet weather better as opposed to dry weather as it's easier to wrong foot the d line. Something the ex harlequins coach (can't remeber his name) showed on boots n all last season. He said Leeds are a much better team when its wet than when it's dry because of how their attack is structured.. flat passes and individual footwork.

If you read all of that and came to that conclusion then you're a moron.

I'd agree with that but I think what we really need is to develop a plan B (fortunately we have 6 months to make it work)...and this to me is where your post and BrisbaneRhinos overlap....near the line, with the defensive line only a couple of meters away you need to use deep runners and crossing lines - nothing else (well apart from good kicking) will work consistently.

We are perfectly capable of it - especially when we use Webb to link up - and with a fit Buderus we should be better at it this year.

(BTW - I do think that we are already trying to mix our game up a bit more - we've just not got the hang of it yet - and this was part of the reason we dropped a lot of ball on saturday)

Tony Rea, who was the best thing about Sky's coverage by a factor approaching the millions.

As for the structure near the line, when has it ever been different? For pretty much all of the SL era, and probably going back further than that, we've looked dis-organised near the line. I remember a Bradford fan, probably Bullseye, saying that he was more worried when Leeds had the ball 50m out than 5m, and that was back in 2003/4.

I have been thinkning the same for a while, we can often break and score from our own half (although we seem to do this less nowadays too), but look lost close in, although we do put in some good kicks.

A lot of our play looks desperate due to our off the cuff style, and often results in a dropped ball, and less repeat sets.

I would like to see us able to mix the off the cuff stuff with some structure.

Sunday was the first break try against St Helens for McClennan. At the start of last year one of the problems was we offloaded too much, actually it worked for us, we put Wakefield, Catalans and Huddersfield to the sword in 3 consecutive games, and against Wakefield we were fantastic, also against Bradford at HQ.

1st try - Kick
2nd try - Offload
3rd try - Break try
4th try - Intercept
5th try - Break try
6th try - Offload break try
7th try - Burrow brilliance
8th try - Kick

That was probably our attack at it's highest level under Bluey, maybe 2nd half against Bradford in Cardiff when we were 10-6 down at half time and after 10 minutes of the second half we were winning 28-10, Webb was the influence of those tries. What I've haven't seen much this year is Burrow at first receiver and McGuire running onto his pass, our support play also hasn't been very good, anyone know how many clean brakes we've had and how many we've actually scored from?

Yes very true. Is this down to the type of player we have recruted/developed though over the years? i.e we've tended to go for speed rather than the noble style bradford biff ? Bulls at their pomp we're devastating close to the line... those days make me shudder...

Saints always look very structured near the line, and that to me is down to the dummy-half dictating things well. It will be interesting to see if we change once Buderus gets his match sharpness back and adjusts to playing alongside new team mates.

Mmm an interesting one. Saints halfbacks for me play in a more structured way than ours which benefits them close to the line.... I'm sure a fully fit sharp buderus will improve us.

I've allowed what I saw of the game to digest in my brain so i can post of of the sensible bit, not the frustrated bit.

There are lessons from the game that need to be learnt. Reassuringly, we've looked comfortable against most other SL sides but inferior to St Helens. Thankfully we have 6 months to get it right before Old Trafford.

We need to be more expansive. The 'drive it down the middle' game didn't work today, as it often doesn't when Peacock & the forwards don't have a good game. Ablett, i thought, was our best player on the crash ball. This sort of play is good, but it needs to be done once a said, preferably bringing Bailey or Lauititi onto the ball at pace, then trying to offload in the tackle.

When playing from the POTB the backs are standing far too flat. This prevents them moving onto the bal at pace as Saints backs did, giving the opposition defence much more time to organise themsleves. We can do this, usually when Burrow makes a run from the potb, but must do it more often. I think Disco is the better hooker for this, as Buderus' passes seemed to be very high & loopy, meaning the reciever had to slow down to collect.

We need to be looking at tackling lower than we do. When we brought a saints player to an immediate hault it was usually Burrow or McGuire, tackling at waist height, and using the opposition player's momentum to carry them onto the floor.

Sinny needs to step up (thought he was very good on sunday) and direct the play. Going short side to JJB in the second half when we had an overlap on the right was an obvious wrong decision. Danny is very quick, but he is not a midfield general. This should be made clear to him, as his job should be to find the gaps & support every break, so we don't end up going clear & being brought back as the player making the break gets isolated.

We also need to be looking at Discipline & temperament of the players. Stay calm, don't develop white line fever and don't become tryshy. For the sets we had close to the saints line we scored far too few points. Similarly, set completio needs to be higher. The boys don't need to look for the magic ball every time, simply move away from the potb, get over the gain line and keep the ball.

The final point is kicking. Everyone who does, or may, play on the wing needs to spend a lot of time under the high ball so they are confident going for a bomb against bigger guys. This basically means Sinny, Danny & pocket monkey spending 30 mins or so every training session putting up balls to Superman, Gibbo, Smith, Hall, Donald & Watkins.

Connected to this is our kicking out of hand. There is no point putting a garryowen up for the opposition fullback if no-one is chasing the kick, same with downfield kicks. The opposition are, suprisingly, professional footballers so will be able to catch an uncontested ball. Pressuring the take means they are a) much more likely to make a mistake, and b)much less likely to make ground after taking it.

Downfield kicks & clearances also need to be chased (i.e. sprinted after, rather than just jogging up the pitch) to prevent territory gain by the opposition. I only saw us properly chase a ball once, but when we did (and tbf it was Danny on his own) we forced saints into a dropout.

These are simple things that can be easily applied, and bluey should be looking at in the next few weeks.

and as an addition, can we please send Danny, Sinny, Webb & Burrow to train with Leigh Hinton & Jason Strange over at Carnegie. We only ever seem to make 20-30 m on touch kicks. Those two (Carnegie fullback & flyhalf) are putting into into the opposition 10 from the halfway line. If our players can learn to do this, it will give us a big advantage when the opposition are penalised.

You are, without a shadow of a doubt, in my estimation a true coaching genius. Who needs a Jack Gibson or a Wayne Bennett when there's a Rugby Union officianado around.

Post it on the Tykes message board.

You read all that?

I just cut my head on the edge of the desk after dropping off.

I weren't going to at first but I actually did.

Best laugh I've had in 6 months.

Do you need CPR?

Chipolata Penetrating Ring?

True


Not against Saints we dont. Saints are probably the only team who have the pace to match us outwide. We need to batter them down the middle to drag them in then use our pace in the backs to trouble them. If we go wide too early we try miracle passes and plays which end up giving away possession, which is a disaster against a team as good as Saints.


Absolute rubbish, the backs are stood very deep this season, the forwards IMO are the ones who are too flat and getting the ball stood still.


Absolute bollax. Buderus' distribution from acting half is much better than Diskins.


Cr@p. This isnt Union where no fecker can pass a ball or offload.

We tackle low and Graham, Cayless, Puletua etc will take the p!ss with offloads, not to mention quicker PTB's.


No he's not a midfield general, but he's still a stand-off, and a bloody good one, not simply a support player.


WTF?



Agreed.


Thats a good idea. Im sure Sinfield, McGuire and Burrow currently spend no time practicing kicking to the wingers and our wingers spend no time practicing catching.


What the hell is one of those? Do you mean a high kick?

You realise you could have just said we need to chase kicks better and it would have meant the same?


Send him a letter and tell him. He's obviously overlooked these basics of the game.


I wouldnt want our lads taking lessons from players as unskilled as a Union fullback and flyhalf.

Leeds must have a pretty ordinary back line, then. This is arguably the slowest group of backs Saints have had in the last twenty years.

After the world cup, am i the only person who thinks wellens cant run,after watching the game on TV it made me wonder why we never tried to show up his lack of pace .two years ago in the grand final donald opend his legs and it looked like wellens was stood still

I may have been brought up watching union, I may still enjoy it when it's played well. However that's doesn't mean I'm not an RL fan, and despite your prejudice it doesn't mean RU concepts cannot be applied to RL without success.

there's a difference between deep & steep. They may well be quite a way back but they aren't in steep line, meaning they have to generate pace off the mark, rather than take the bal at pace & run the line. This is what we saw saints do yesterday. If we can keep the boys calm we can go wide & not lose possession, as saints did.

However, as mentioned earlier the present game plan should still be practiced for wet conditions, which always give us an edge.

Several times yesterday the first reciever was having to jump and/or step backwards to recieve the pass. Disco's went straight into the bread basket.

Tackling low, when done properly, prevents an offload as the player goes straight over, ball carrying arm hits ground=tackle completed. I'd bet if we had some stats Burrow (who has no choice but to tackle low) is our best tackle completer.

Based on the amount of times our players are dodgy under the high ball I'd say it needs some work, particularly with Donald & Hall.

And while you say these players are unskilled, you also call union 'kick & clap'. Presumably they're quite good at these. It's regular in union for nominated kickers to punt from inside their own 22 to the opposition 22, and for goals to be kicked from the halfway line. I'd struggle to recall any RL player doing this.

And as for unskilled-would you say Dan Carter and Jonathan Davies were unskilled?

The only difference in your threequarter line on Sunday from last year was Gilmour for Talau. In terms of pace there's not much between them.

How do you quantify your outlandish soundbite with that?