I don't know about anyone else but I'm just really worried about our game in general.

The Four Nations has for me been so so poorly run by the rfl. Why the hell are we playing games to half empty stadiums in London ( ok some logic ) and Coventry of all places ? It comes across as half hearted, poorly supported and just a bit embarrassing. I mean did you see the stadia ? And the Atmosphere? Looked awful on TV.
I fear that the product on show is also poor. Can any of you say that you feel the game is entertaining as it once was? I've been a rhino since 87 and my eyes glaze over with some of the stuff on show. Forwards clattering into each other and we have Stevo and Eddie waxing lyrical and gushing over big hits. The game has become so defence heavy there is little creativity anymore and we need to change this. I hate what I'm about to say but the union game is becoming vastly more interesting to watch. There's more endeavour, more open play and there's just as many big collisions as in league.
I live down south and I'd always stand my ground and claim rl is the greatest game but I'm not sure it is right now. I don't know what can change or how to change it but some of you must admit standards to watch are poor. That's not to say there are not any incredible games to watch but they are few and far between.
And then we have the way the game is run and the plight of the poor Bulls. I hate em, of course I do, but what has happened or been allowed to happen to them brings shame on our game and the administrators. If we lose Bradford who next? We need a solution here and the RFL need to sort this out once and for all. Those who run the club in such a fashion should be deemed not fit for purpose and banned From the game. There should be strict criteria to satisfy and business plans presented to, well I'd say the RFL, but somebody who can verify and approve.
I'm not sure why I'm writing this post but rugby league is in my blood and I care a huge amount but I guess I just feel so downbeat about our wonderful game right now.

IMO...RL in this country has just treaded water ever since i started watching the game in the 80's. We are still getting mullered by the Aussies...still a M62 corridor game...Big previously successful clubs go to the wall now and then, It was Widnes in the early 90's.

You see how far RU has come in that period and it can get very depressing so i get your downbeat view. For me, i have come to accept by now that the game in this country will always be exactly how it has been the last few decades whilst it is run by the short sighted, incompetent morons at the RFL.

Some things I agree with. The games are certainly not as entertaining as they were 10 years ago. We are no closer to beating the Aussies.

I disagree about the games being staged away from the north. The game in London attracted more fans than if we'd have staged it in Wigan, hudds or hull. The same with Coventry. New fans will have gone to these games and experienced RL live for the first time. Whilst to a RL hardcore the game is poorer than it was, I still think it provides good entertainment to a newbie, and at a fraction of the cost of going to Twickenham. I don't think you can complain that were an m62 game then decry the fact that it's being showcased outside of the heartlands.

The thing that worries me most is finance. The game over here has no money. Without money in the game opportunities to expand or improve are limited. If Bradford go under its another nail in the coffin. A big club with potential for large crowds had gone from the game

There simply isn't enough money in the game. Accept what it is, a minor sport played in a certain part of the country.
Union has one massive advantage, a thriving international game. It draws sponsors and wealthy businessmen into the game to bankroll clubs. No way could the likes of Gloucester or Bath afford a salary cap of 6.5 million (7 next year) on crowds alone.
Expansion of the game will NEVER happen. Accept that and then you can get on with doing a proper job with what there is now.

100% agree with DHM i'll also add we can still make our game in this country better with simple changes to the fixture list & play off structure.
Id also make running a reserve grade a standard requirement for ALL SL clubs.
Finally Eagle to see the Premier Elite International RL Fixture on the Calendar played in front of a half empty ground in Coventry was shocking planning on every level as was not having Scotland actually play on their home turf.

Agreed. I would like to see what little money we do have invested in making the heartland clubs stronger instead of chasing pipe dreams of expansion built on foundations of sand.

I know it comes across as short sighted, and it's not the way i want to think it really isn't, but common sense surely says now that RL will never be anything more than a northern sport in England.

Not saying thier isn't any problems in the game and I agree the four nations was poorly run and someones head should roll. BUT

We have a sell out GF every year MW is bigger than ever. We had the biggest WC ever just a few years ago and a record attenened NZ series last year.

Thing is, if we made sure our heartland clubs were on a sound footing, expansion would come easily and certainly less painfully than we have seen so far with only Catalans coming through relatively painless.

And TBF they have a wealthy backer keen to bankroll them.

How long we had this same debate now?

A loooong time. When I started watching the game it was Bridgend and Kent Invicta as "expansion" areas, then Fulham. I guess the financial pressures weren't there until the international ban was lifted and then the Bradford fire and it's aftermath with regard to stadium requirements. Then Wigan went full pro and off we went.

Another change was of course when Union finally admitted it was professional.

That is what could ultimately prove fatal to RL, after all it was what provoked the schism in the first place.

Indeed.

Our games lack of response to the going pro was the issue, allowing them to hijack the name "rugby" removing the union bit, they even call there domestic cup the challenge cup now.

I really think we should consider banning players from our game if they switch. They started to war and in principle we one by definition that they went pro. Since then we have rolled over for our bellies tickling.

funny there was no outcry when loads of top players took the league shilling before union went pro, boots on the other foot now.

On top of achieving sod all I find that idea petty in the extreme.

The best way - maybe the only way - that we can outdo union is to make our game the more skilful once more and maybe the toughest once again. And I don't mean skilful in the sense of rolling a tackled player onto his back to slow the ptb or milking a penalty by moving off the mark, which seems to be the be all and end all these days.

I agree I was being slightly flipent with the banning response, people also forget Union was pro just not officially it's ok saying we took Union players but most came not for the money as they were getting paid anyway, they simply came because of the cloak and dagger nature and wanted the security of league. That was the case certainly with bully Boston and Jonathan Davies. After all you can't get a mortgage with a brown paper envelope.

You can draw parallels with the great split of 1895 and Brexit. How rugby league is currently ran in the UK is a preview of what its going to be like when this country has finished with article 50.

With problem with RL exists world over, people think solely about themselves and solely about the short term.

Look down under, where you have a nation who is RL mad in PNG but they have no professional team there and no clear route for players to reach the NRL short of the odd scout from various clubs.

This insular and short term thinking is perhaps best demonstrated by Bennet's recent interviews, I can't believe none at the RFL has told him to make more effort.
Eddie Jones by contrast is constantly promoting his side and his sport, and getting quotes in the paper.

For anyone not worried about the 'trickle' of players to Union or the NRL, I would point to the example of football in South America.
In the 80s only some of the very top South Americans came to Europe, along with the odd few others, they probably called that a 'trickle' as well.
Now just about any South American worth his salt plays in a European league.

This could well happen to SL, that it becomes a place full of the too young, too old, and not good enough.

Definitely. Furthermore, it smacks not just of contempt for the media but for the fans too. I think that all too soon he'll be on his way due to sheer weight of uninformed judgement on his tenure. The reason the fans will remain uninformed will be because he doesn't see fit to make it otherwise. Not that he'll give a s**t.

Speaking of the media the Beeb and other outlets continually use the term rugby and rarely rugby union and although their coverage has improved you still get the feeling that they are being patronising to our Northern game of rugger!

The only problems with the four nations games down south were the kick off days and times. The Ricoh is a decent stadium, but the games needed to be on a Saturday afternoon. The same with the fixture at London Stadium.

With England's performance, while we weren't too far away, (1 point loss to NZ) I can't see us improving with the next generation of players. Some super league clubs don't run academies. When players reach 19 they don't have a league to play in until they break into the first team. This certainly isn't going to create a fast moving production line of England internationals.

PNG Hunters are fully professional I do believe. They have also had some success with players moving to NRL clubs (although still playing in their NSW/Queensland cup feeder teams)

I wrote something on the VT about my thoughts on the current state of the game over here - I'm a rugby league tragic, have been since I was taken to my first game in 86'. I'm from a rugby league family where all the blokes dating back generations have played the game to varying standards, and the women are dyed in the wool followers of the game too - I don't think a non-rugby league person would ever enter our family. I still play in the NCL and am involved with Junior rugby too - I couldn't be more rugby league - but even I'm beginning to lose interest, particularly with the professional game - I attended less games than ever this year, and watched fewer games on TV than ever, in fact, you could add my attendances and TV games together and they'd still be less than just my attendance figures for all other years. And that really worries me - if I'm losing faith in the game, how many others feel the same? And what chance is there of attracting new fans in the numbers required, if the loyal die hards are falling out of love with it?

I'll try be brief and summarise what I thinks wrong - clearly a lack of money in the game is a big problem, but that is underpinned by low participation and a low profile of the sport. It all starts with he junior game, which is in a complete mess, and then it just goes from bad to worse as you progress up the scale through amateurs, semi pro, super league and international.

Juniors - Generally the coaching is poor (there are exceptions), there's still a 'give it to the big hard kid' mentality, the teams/communities are still very cliquey, and it's just generally not a very welcoming environment for new faces, particularly for kids who haven't really got a clue but fancy trying the game - they hardly have a chance and will generally be frightened off. Then throw in that it's generally cold, wet and dark when they train, and facilities are usually garbage, it doesn't make the game appealing to kids unless they're already from an RL family. And for most kids who aren't from RL families, they might attend once, but their parents won't bring them back as the people are 'too rough'. There needs to be more focus on enjoyment and building the most basic of skills - it should still be competitive, that's a fundemental in sport, but 'winning' should only really be a focus for the kids and most definitely shouldn't be the sole focus of the adults involved. I'm a big believer in the professional clubs owning all Junior leagues in their catchment area (with none heartlands shared out). The clubs (and RFL) need to invest in facilities that can be shared by the Junior clubs to make training/playing more comfortable for the kids. The Aussies have a natural advantage with their climate - we need to be innovative in this area to get kids out of the house, off their computers and playing our game (whatever the weather). Only by increasing the number of participants in our sport can we ever truly build the game. It's the absolute fundamental starting block.

Amateur - There's then major issues with the amateur game with the whole summer/winter debacle - teams are dying and participation must be at an all time low.

In all areas of the amateur game, I think a big win would be to have both full contact and Tag leagues - we lose lots of participants due to the fear of injury - whether it be that their a bit too soft for the proper game, or that they can't afford to risk injury coz of work etc.... currently the tag version of the game is very much a social scene, and is seen as a bit of a joke to players who play full contact. With a structured and meaningful tag competition at juniors and open age, we could agin increase participation levels.

Then there's the professional game. Desperately in need of more money, having an identity crisis trying to appeal to a new audience that I don't think the people running the game even know who heyre targeting. We're stripping out elements of the game to sanitise it and make it 'safer' and more family friendly, but alienating core supporters by doing so.
I agree with expansion, but let's try get our house in order in the heartlands first. What's the point taking a 1 off game to Coventry for example, where you might get some locals attend and like it, but in reality, there's not a professional team within 100 miles that they can then go and follow on a week to week basis - so we're not attracting new 'supporters', at absolute best we're catching the interest of an occasional viewer. The sensible thing to do is choose an area with a low supported or fledgling professional team,, flood it with funding at Junior level and work from the ground up - supplemented by taking big games/magic weekend etc to the area. Don't just throw a dart at a map and plonk an international game there - it's a slapdash approach at best.

Anyway - apologies for the rant - I could go on and on, but frankly my thumbs and wrist are killing from typing on the iPhone.... and what does it change?

RL gives a free pass to failure. We pretend the RFU did some magic. We look at the things they do and say we can't do it, we don't have the money. Completely ignoring that the reason RU has the money it has to do the things it does, is because it did the things it did. While RU reaps the benefits of an strong international game, we are still arguing about whether its worth bothering.

We apparently can never have a strong international game and shouldn't bother with expansion to new areas or new countries, We have people arguing that our barely better than amateur 3rd tier is too much for a Canadian side willing to fund everything themselves. We refused to admit, and have since forced a club from a huge, rich city in france to play at a level far below their potential. We have done so twice. People say we can't and wont expand, and people say they will never play the game in new areas. People said they would never play RU in Japan, people said they would never play it in the US or Canada, that they would never play it in china.

We even have people arguing we should give up on the WCC because we get beat and winning is hard.

RL isn't successful because some in the game don't want it to be. Some see success as a threat and not an opportunity. Some see new clubs and new areas as a challenge to their own little fiefdom,