www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJrbO_pDLjY Is violence an acceptable part of Rugby League? Sydney viewers respond on tonight's Soapbox

www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJrbO_pDLjY Is violence an acceptable part of Rugby League? Sydney viewers respond on tonight's Soapbox

I can't seem to get the link working. If you mean on the pitch, then to an extent yes. It's a physical game and in it's nature fairly violent. Most of us would get paggered if someone ran and hit us like that.

If you mean in the stands etc then obviously know.

Good, honest on-field biff is an acceptable part of Rugby League. In fact, if we're really honest, for most of us it's one of our favourite parts isn't it?

Depends how far it goes. If you want to watch fighting though, go try MMA or boxing, because it isn't Rugby League.

IMO, an on-field punch up is not violence. Even if it is an all in brawl, I still don't class it as violence as long as it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.

If it's unprovoked, one party is defenceless or comes as a cheap shot(Tuilangi on Ashton in RU, Farrell's headbutt for Wigan v Saints(?) a fair few years ago, or Kelvin Skerret's forearm on Morley for example) then this is where it becomes violent IMO.

Violence has no place in our game but a punch up does.

Define violence, for these purposes?

Who was it said rugby league wasn't a contact sport, it was a collision sport? (Laurie Daley?)

Every collision in rugby league has an element of violence in it. Every single tackle would probably land you with an assault charge if you did it to someone in the street, but thanks to most players exercising their duty of care to fellow professionals they pass without incident.

When players neglect that duty of care is where it strays into the sort of violence I think you're probably referring to, and that has no place on a rugby league pitch IMO.

MMA? If I wanted to watch blokes lying around on top of each other for ages I'd watch Union....

I often think the violence and aggression ON the pitch is one of the reasons there's so little violence and aggression OFF it.

Just had an interesting conversation with my brother who is an RU Junior coach at a club in Leeds, they are getting increasing numbers of youngsters (his group this year is the U10s) coming to them from Leeds rugby league amateur clubs because of the amount of violence that is now seemingly acceptable at those young age groups in RL.

Two new members came last week from a well known Leeds amateur RL club who had played the previous week where team mates had suffered a broken nose (not just bloody but broken) and an eye closed up because of the violent play from a team based in South Leeds.

A lack of discipline and violence coached into 10 year olds is not the way the game should be going.

The odd bit of biff every now and again is great for the game at pro-level. At amateur level it has no place whatsoever and should be extremely harshly punished. The same goes for violence off the pitch.

What a hypocritical comment. Why can it have a place in the pro game but not amateur?

Violence has no place in RL at all now. All this talk of biff is prehistoric now. Sport in general is in a whole different place. Our sport is hard enough without players getting punched/kicked etc..

Why is it hypocritical to take a different view on a part of the game with different characteristics?
At pro level they are, by definition, professionals. If they get injured they don't lose anything other than some form but they still get paid and are well looked after. In the amateur game players have jobs to go to and only the NHS for any assistance. Plus the entire aim of the pro game is to win, that is not (or should not be) the case at amateur level. I'm not talking 80's style elbows to the head and no-one has mentioned kicking people which there is no place for. But the odd fight here and there gets players going, gets the crowd going and shows the players are bothered. Do I want to see a fight every 5 mins? No.
Do I mind if there is one in a big, important game. No.

If you really think violence has no place at all in rugby league then I assume you wish for the sport to ban tackling and contact of any kind. Since a tackle is violent, and big hits (which are a vital ingredient of a good rugby league game) certainly are violent.

Cut out the biff and start playing with a round ball .

Thoughts ?

It's not a game for flamin' Nancy boys is it really.

Make the lads that ain't scared of a bit of biff wear black boots , and the ones that don't want any wear yellow ones . Kinda like martial arts gradings .

Don't be so childish.

Contact is part of the game. You know that's not the point im making.

What I object to is violence outside of the rule book. That is what I class as 'violence'.

The problem with RL as a whole is closely linked to an issue like this. The sport needs to fit the needs of the modern sporting era. This is a time when sports that by their nature are violent, ie boxing come under public scrutiny, so a sport like RL where a large number of fans still embrace violence beyond the rules is in danger of being seen as outdated.

I remember Andy Dannant (spelling) breaking Hanleys jaw with an off the ball high elbow. Did you like that? Make you feel like you'd seen a good game? Maybe its people like you who would be more suited to watching the round ball.

Yes, and that contact is often violent.


Whether you object to it or not, when you have highly charged, highly athletic, very determined men who's objective is to win participating in violent contact regularly in a short period of time it is naturally going to lead to occasional outbreaks of "violence". So long as it is occasional and within reason I don't see it as a problem in the professional game.


I agree that RL does not currently fit the needs of the modern sporting era. But I don't believe that it is due to excessive violence in the professional game. In fact violence is quite rare on a professional rugbg league pitch these days. Pro RL has far bigger modernising worries such as stadium facilities, PR and modern business models.
Also to compare pro RL to boxing is a silly comparison in this context. To compete in a boxing match means the boxer MUST commit violence. That is not the case in rugby league where any violence is a by-product of the aggressive nature of the sport and not the only way of participating in that sport.


Did you even read my post? Where I specifically stated I wasn't talking about such incidents? I'll assume you didn't and direct you to your own advice:

This is true and the main instigator of unnecessary violence within the junior amateur game are parents and parent-coaches - ask any follower of any age group in any district league and they will name at least one team at their level who they dread playing, not just their offspring on the pitch but the parents who follow their team who seemingly have no concept of acceptable behaviour when out and about in public - sending your 10 year old out onto a pitch and then shouting obscene language all through the game to encourage him to injure another kid and applauding when he does is not acceptable in anyone's books and if it ever becomes more common than it already is then the game will die on its a[irs[/ie from the roots upwards within ten years, if not sooner.

My lad played under 8s in Wigan for our local team and 2 very well known teams were horrible. Kids ran in with elbows up and pushed kids faces down in the mud after a tackle at 7 and 8 years old. One of the teams, on the outskirts of Wigan, even had a parent drinking a can of lager at 10.30 on Sunday morning. My lad now plays football.

I was once told by an ex RL pro that RL has a high proportion of horrible people involved compared to RU.

Spot on. RL at amateur level is a disgrace and is,IMO, probably the main factor holding the game back in the heartlands.

Yep, sadly I'm not surprised by your lads' experience. The amount of kids who drop out of RL and turn to Union or football must be huge. Although I'd imagine football can't claim to be squeaky clean on that front either.
The sad thing is I think the problem is in the heartlands of RL. 99 times out of 100 whenever I watch a heartlands amateur game I despair for the future of RL because of the so needlessly aggressive and intimidating atmosphere at heartland games. With players of other age groups drinking and shouting abuse on the sidelines, parents shouting and swearing, girlfriends/wives drinking and swearing, coaches swearing and shouting abuse at referees and the opposition and players deliberately attempting to hurt the opposition with needless high tackles and fights.
My brother started playing occasional games for Nottingham Outlaws recently, only in their 2nd or 3rd team mind, but the difference in atmosphere and attitude was huge. It almost tempted me to try and get fit to start playing again.

Do you have a multiple personality disorder?



Im not saying amateur and pro are the same but pro is the highest standard. If violence is seen as acceptable there what do you think amateurs are going to do? And if its acceptable to pros who are idols of kids, what do you expect kids are going to want to do?

Why is it that so many in RL are so short sighted. Look at the big picture.

Ok, so I admit, I like to see Bailey standing his ground, and yes, when Burrow was swinging at that big Hull South Sea Islander I laughed. But the question here isn't 'do you understand why emotions run high at the top level?' The question is 'Is violence an acceptable part of Rugby League?' The only answer is no. Violence in any sport, indeed in any walk of life is unacceptable. If you try and defend any other answer then quite frankly I dont see how you can call yourself a fan. You're a thug.

I liken it to the difference between MacDonalds and Burger King. The product is much much better at Burger King, but MacDonalds has the upper hand in the exposure stakes due to superior image control.

Rugby Union is a warm, friendly and comfortable place to take kids. The game is full of networking opportunities. People look after their own and the governing body SHOWERS the junior wings with money, support, technical assistance and anything that you need, someone will aid you in obtaining.

Rugby League has the better product, but in my experience, is played in cold, hostile, run down working mens clubs. Nobody gives two hoots about anybody but themselves and the governing body is not interested. Rugby League devotees fight like salmon against a flow of ignorance, apathy and downright ineptitude to try and raise money for kits, lights, well anything really.

If ever the Outlaws needed a testament to what they try to do. That is it.
Leicester Rhino. Take a bow.

No.

Rugby league is a tough physical game, so tempers will always spill over occasionally and that's part and parcel of the game.

But theres a difference between the ooccasional flair up, and deliberate violence, which someone alluded happens in alot of the amateur games.