I've refrained from saying this all season so far as I think he needed time and to get a few bodies back... BUT after last night I've made up my mind he is not good enough and must be replaced either now or at season end - depending on who is available. Last night proved he simply is a million miles behind Tony Smith and Mclennan (especially Smith). Weller ought to go with him as well.. not good enough. We've been given 2 beatings by Wire and many congrats to them they are the best team in the comp but on paper we're not THAT far behind em, but with a coach a poor as Mcdermott I fear we are..........

GH please please take note and get rid.

I think mcDermott can only run teams such as quins,salford,hull kr,crusaders etc.

Leeds have been superior in the super league,With good managers and coaches along the way!

To have McDermott in control Amazed me when i first found out.

I never thought twice about him doing a good job as a slow rising smile came upon my face.

I do think you need to part company with him if your to be a serious contender for trophies again!

Not going to happen. If things don't improve though (in terms of results/performances against the top teams) he might be vunerable at the end of 2012.

These next 2 years were always going to be difficult with the amount of players coming out of contract and/or to the end of their 'effectiveness'

I think GH will give Mac the chance to freshen up the playing staff in the close season.

Let's also face facts here, irrespective of what people think about Mac's credentials as a coach, the warning signs of what is happening now have been evident for the last 18 months or so. Bluey knew it and got out/was pushed at the right time. Had he still been in charge I fear performances this year will have been not much different and maybe GH will have sacked Bluey now had he still been here because this 'decline' has been slowly coming for a while.

Lots of work required by the players/coach and GH in terms of dealing with contract renewals and recruitment in general for 2012 to try and put things back in track and prevent a 'Bradford'

Difficult and challenging times lay a head. In the meantime as fans we need to try and remain patient and get behind the boys and the coach and lift/inspire them the best we can.

Past success is no guarantee of future success

As a wire fan I think he's doing a cracking job!

As a rugby league fan i think he needs to go to a less built squad and work on that instead of wasting time with leeds.

Watching the Wire's confident second half performance, where they played an excellent structured expansive game, It crossed my mind that it wasn't so long ago we played in the exact same way!

And with the same Coach...

Why should we have to put up with this tripe, before we kicked a ball we looked lost, durung the warm up Leeds looked disinterested and that is how they played. Its no coincidence that we played well under MURRAY and SMITH and poor under the rest, do we need a crowd of less than 5000 to spur GH to dig into his pocket. CUT DEEP, CUT NOW and lets move on.

He failed at Quins and thats as a Quins fan-we went backwards year on year with him-Awful manager

He proved last night just what he is, an Assistant Coach. Warrington were just like we were under Smith, a rock solid defence, play patiently for an hour and then cut lose. Smith showed us at Wembley who the better coach was, Smith showed us last night how good our current coach is!

As someone above said he might be at risk of sack end 2012!

I appreciate that these are a difficult couple of years but by then our team
could be the new Bradford!

IMO I do not trust his judgement or ability to see us through the next few difficult
years.

End of 2012??? why on earth would or should he be safe until then? I accept we can't win it all the time, especially in a salary capped era but we've fallen well well behind under Mcdermott.. time for him to go. Also time for GH to get ruthless with recruitment and the current squad.

I hear what you're saying but I'm just saying I don't think GH will act at the end of this season (in terms of sacking Mac or bringing someone in over him and relegating him to the No2 that he was supposed to be this year)

Mac was kind of pushed into the hot seat when Bluey got out and I think GH will give him another season.

The only way I think GH will take action to replace him before then is if we have a disasterous run to the end of the season and fail to make the play offs but let's face it, as recent results have shown we are still more than a match for the 'second tear' teams in this division ( a tear we are dropping faster towards) which should mean that we should be able to finish at least 5th and possibly 4th if other teams have bad injuries/loss of form.

Whilst finishing 5th may not sit happy with most I think we've got to be realistic that AT THIS MOMENT in time we are falling further and further behind the likes of Warrington, Wigan, Saints and Huddersfield but we can/should/probably still will be capable of winning the '2nd tear' competition even with the current squad.

I feel we are paying for poor player recruitment/retention over the last few years but because we were winning 3 Grand Finals on the trot most fans/the club thought everything was fine and a kind of ''if it ain't broke there's no need to fix it'' kind of attitude and because player 'X' has won 3/4 GF rings he has to be retained and has to be better than any alternative that can//could/should have been brought in.

This squad needed major surgery BEFORE this season IF we were wanting to be serious about winning trophies.

To me there are/were 2 options going forward even before the season started.

1. IF we were serious about not just competing with but beating the Wigans,Warringtons,Huddersfields,SAints of this world then major surgery was needed and players who have served the club with great distinction and won many things had to be thanked and remembered fondly by us all for their efforts but moved on nevertheless.

2. IF we are happy to just compete and retain these older players whilst slowly integrating 'the next generation' of up and coming junior players and being patient that our next period to really challenge the best might be a few years away with the odd new player brought in from outside then keep doing as we have.

We were lucky that so many star junior players came into the 1st team around 2000 to 2003 just before the golden period began. Fans of my age and above will recall the years of true gash that was served up in the years proceeding that.

Option 2 has worked before and no doubt will/can again but that requires patience and possibly a few years of much lower expectations whilst the likes of BJB,Watkins,Wilson,Hardaker,Amor,Ambler,Singleton,McShane etc grow and develop together. There will be times when some/all of these players look world beaters in the beginning, but also times when they make many mistakes and look out of their depth. This is only natural but some fans cannot accept that and want instant success.

I don't feel we have the cash (South Stand development etc) or the wage structure to bring in several 'world class' stars from the NRL or Super League so I feel GH has chosen option 2 which is the one requiring patience whilst the 'next stars' develop surrounded by some experiened, been there, done that pros.

I feel McDermott may end up being in the Darrel Powel situation where he resided over a team that was not winning anything and was having to slowly develop for someone to then come in and add the finishing touches and be fortunate enough in a way to be in the right place at the right time when the team is at it's height of it's powers/potential.

Our current team is not at the height of it's powers and is on the down slope. How long and steep that slope is/becomes is down to GH.

Often, the time to take action is whilst you're still at the top in order to stay at the top and not to wait until you are in the situation we are now where your competition has caught up and overtaken you in some cases and we are then playing catch up.

The actions of giving 7 players all one year extensions at the same time last season was a major error IMO then and certainly is with the benefit of hindsight.

I appreciate Donald & Diskin went anyway but if we were serious about retaining our number 1 status there is no way we should have been retaining the likes of Donald,Diskin, Kirke, Bailey, Ali etc and IMO it will be a massive mistake if we now extend the deals of Senior, Ali, Webb, Bailey & Kirke. All these guys need to be thanked for their great service but it's time to either replace them from within if the club feel they have the personnel or bring new players in from outside.

I feel that the action we take now/this close season is massive as it will determine our destiny over the next 4/5 years

Actually probably more apt: I do feel positively lachrymose

Good post cheekydiddles.

I'm in no way writing this as a smug Bulls fan ( we don't exactly have a lot to be smug about) But i find it amazing how some Leeds fans still think they are THE dominant force of SL. It was an amazing achievement to win 3 titles on the bounce, but it can't last forever. Wigan, Warrington, Giants all upped their game. It didn't happen over night for them either. Plus Mcdermotts hasn't the luxury of been able to slash the cash about and he has had injuries to your two most influential players for most of the season. If Wigan had Tomkins and LeuLai out, where would they be? Whether you like it or not, Wigan, Warrington and Huddersfield all have better squads than you, and too may of your players are approaching the end of thier careers, and then the rest are just beginning theirs. Even if Tony Smith or someone like that came in, it would still take him 2-3 years to get Leeds back up to it.

Also some of your players need to shoulder a lot of the blame. Is Mcdermott slapping the ball down out of the oppoistion on the last tackle? Stupid actions like this aren't the coaches fault.

On another point i though Peacock was woeful last night. Incredibly slow getting of the tackles and i feel shouldn't be any where nead the England squad for the exiles game

But that didnt last for ever did it. And it wont last for ever with Wire.

For 2004 and 2005 we were wonderful, for 2006 woeful, 2007 poor up until a good end of season.

Smith is a good coach, but he isnt infallible and this is his third season at Wire, next season will be his 4th, which is as long as he has been at any club, i dont think he will be there for much longer, and if he is, they wont be able to keep up this level of performance (they are very very good at the moment, better than Wigan were last year imo)


As for our coach, wasting these next two years as transitional years would be the worst mistake we can make. The squad doesnt need a huge overhaul. This isnt 2001 and we cant spend the next three years aiming towards a 2014 challenge. We have some quality players, Sinfield, Mcguire, Buderus, JJB, JP, Kylie, Hall, are still a good enough spine to win things. Webb, Ablett, Burgess, Bailey, Smith, Ali are still good enough supporting players to win things, Watkins, BJB, Clarkson, Hardaker, and McShane are as good a youth players as anything else coming through in SL right now. We have the potential to win things and shouldnt give up the opportunity we have over the next 2/3 years for some possible challenge a couple of years down the line.

The squad doesnt need major surgery, it needs a good bit this offseason and it needs minor surgery over the 2 years after. But giving up on the next two years will take us from looking to replace Buderus, JP, Kylie, Ali and Senior, to starting to need to replace Mcguire, Burrow, Sinfield, Bailey, JJB, and all of a sudden we need another 2 years of transition and we are looking at 5/6 of not really challenging.

GH needs to make a decision at the end of this year (if not before) over whether he thinks BM is the man to take us forward and have us challenge next year and 2013 whilst at the same rebuilding the squad toward 2014.

If he does then he needs to back him 100%, if not then get rid and get someone over from Australia.

A couple of points/questions;
1, Why did GH not make more effort to keep TS? (pre GB/England, afterall as good a coach as Bluey was, he was working with the majority of TS squad & winning mentallity.

2, Having recently watched 2008 GF again, at the winning celebrations, the joy on Nick Scruton's face was pure LEEDS!. Ok maybe he asked for too much money, but he is a far better forward IMO (when not injured) than some that we have kept on or signed.

3, We seem to keep players well past there sell by dates and don't seem to recrute with much thought for team balance & squad needs.

4, If you look at the quality of the Huddersfield squad, they seem to have quite a few cast off's from other teams but now seem to gel superbly, why didn't we go for Dale Ferguson? a very good forward IMO. Also Larne Patrick would give any of our forwards a good run...

and finally 5, how do Wigan & Warrington manage to stay under the cap?
just a thought.

I am thoroughly enjoying the Tony Smith love-in. Would all those posters on here extolling his virtues care to remind us what they posted about him 2006-2007 whilst he [iwas[/i Leeds coach?

Hypocrites.

Luckily some us us recognised his genius at the time.

Anyway, Whilst not wanting to rush to a knee jerk reaction on the back of a defeat to what is clearly the best team in the competition, right now, I must say McDermott's decisions and team selection last night were baffling and ham-string us before a ball was kicked.

McGuire is a better scrum half than Burrow eh?

he is a top class coach but that is partly because he learnt from the mistakes, and there were plenty, when he was at leeds.the best coaches do this.
he is a far better coach now then he was then.
2004 he was magnificent, the rest were hit and miss

Leeds underachieved for the best part of 3 seasons under Tony Smith... 2005, 2006 and most of 2007. Only after he'd announced he was going did Leeds form pick up at the business-end of the season. It was definitely time for him to depart.

He was an unmitigated disaster as coach of England as he presided over the most embarrassing tour to Australia and NZ ever!

By SL standards he's a good coach but not a great one.

By NRL standards, he'd struggle to get a gig as water carrier.

TBH Larne Patrick probably feels he is currently at a better club than Leeds, no disrespect, as for Ferguson originally we were both after Hauraki and he chose Leeds over Giants again probably thought he was going to the better club? This allowed us to then go for Fergy as you guys probably felt had enough backrowers, I feel we got the better of the two from what I have seen so far.

BMD will stay until the end of the season, but unless we see a massive upturn in virtually all apects of our play in the next month, he should be looking for another job for next year. He's had a chance with enough fit players now to show us he can coach consistently good performances out of the players we have, but he's failed.

Changing coach mid season is very rarely a good thing, and we should only be doing this if the right man is available. Lowes on the other hand can go now...

Compare Wigans' squad with Wires', compare Wires' with any other, it stands out a mile for me. Unless they have a life long ambition to play in front of the esteemed Warrington public or are willing to sacrifice salary to be coached by Tony Smith.

Burrow is a better hooker than McShane?

I feel at this point we have just won 6 games on the bounce before the Warrington game, and it seems after every loss there is a thread about McDermott leaving. If we have a poor finish at the end of the season then fair enough, it may be time to look for a new Head Coach with more experience, and have McDermott and Lowes as understudies.
The squad new a revamp as some of the players are either well past it or just not good enough for our team. We have some talented youngsters coming through (McShane, Watkins, Ward etc). Today also the u16s beat Wakey 76-6. We need to sign 2-3 maybe 4 players, we need a new experienced quality centre, a quality prop, a young half back and maybe a second rower. We need to get rid of the deadwood in the squad, that add nothing to us week in week out, and we do have a few players that would be good for a squad further down the league, and not a team that are pushing for GF glory at the end of the season, Unfortunatley players like Hauraki and Cross fall into this category, i feel we only signed them as a last resort because Beast and Disko left at the end of last season. We need to get into the market straight away, so now, and look at the likes of Matt Cooper and Antonio Kaufusi, both are quality, yes Cooper may be a bit old, but we can slot Aston Wilson in, if he is ready when Cooper retires, or sign a player of that quality. Kaufusi is a no nonsense prop, and alongside JP and Leuluao would be a good player to have off the bench or starting. I think we are otherwise covered in the prop position with Ambler and Amor, both who are making big impressions at their current loan clubs, from all accounts especially Amor, who a number of times has been commented on, on TV for his commitment, and forward thinking rugby. A new second rower is needed in case Kirke leaves, and a young and decent half back to be backup for our current half backs, if Buderus leaves i would try and sign Chase, and maybe play Burrow on the bench or starting as a hooker, but not too sure how good he would be as a hooker. Personally hope Buderus plays for a season, with McShane and Hood stepping in, in 2013. We will probably be letting the likes of Kirke, Bailey, Ali and Webb go to allow younger players to develop, with Pitts coming in for Kirke, Amor/Ambler for Bailey, and Jones Bishop comes in for Webb. I expect Senior and Cross to leave/retire, because Senior i think is past it now, but he has been a great servant to our club, and Cross hasn't added much to our team since joining, and McDermott seems to refuse to select him, since the Cas game which i thought was his best game for us.
Enough of the squad, back to the coaching system, i think if we don't get top 4 maybe 5 finish at the end of the season, then we may need to bring in another head coach, with someone like Ricky Stuart coming in to add the experience to the coaching lineup. I hope Lowes and McDermott stay, but as Assistant coaches, as i believe the latter especially has a lot to learn, because we haven't really been good enough this season. We have picked up some form, but it hasn't yet been good enough for me.
Having said all this, for me the future is bright, with the likes of Jones Bishop, Pitts, Watkins, McShane, Ambler, Amor, Ward, Stewart, Hood, Singleton and Hardaker (who is really impressing me), we have a lot of good potential outside our 17, so i am not worrying in that department, but the present for me is a bit concerning, and at the end of the season needs to be sorted, this now needs to be the turn around for our squad, and the start of a new era of Leeds Rhinos, and hopefully a successful era!!

I agree with some of Cheeky diddles comments - but think that Kirke (on his current form) needs to be kept for a further year - but is puzzled by some of macca's (in macca we believe) 's squad selections - last night Biffa & Cross would have been crucial but neither were picked despite not having any injuries!!! - why?