Age is a terrible thing. It slows down the brain and the body and, whilst every Leeds player is undoubtedly willing, I do worry about the fact that many of the older boys have resigned for another season. That means that, potentially, we will be playing with a 35 year old centre (assuming that I am right in thinking that Senior is, indeed, senior at 34 years old as I write) and a front row who will all be well over 30. Indeed, the illustrious and King of Captains Kevin Sinfield turns 30 sometime soon

There was a time when I needn't have worried, as Leeds once had a bit of a reputation for developing fantastic British talent (think of days when we had a tremendous team made up of fine young Leeds Academy players such as Sinfield, JJB, McGuire, Burrow and Calderwood). However, if I am correct, in the last 3 years only one player - Ryan Hall - has established himself as a regular first team player (and even he is only a fraction of the player he was last year, appearing to be all bulk and no swerve). What on earth happened?

Was the golden generation a one-off? Are we going to try and get just one more year out of our seasoned players? Is there some exciting young blood hidden away that I have yet to clap eyes on? Will next year be as fruitless as this?

In the last 3 yrs Smith has cemented his place as a 1st team regular along with Hall ,Ablett,Burgess and now we have the likes of Mcshane,Ambler,Clarkson ,Watkins and Bjb to come in then of course there's the youngsters that have been awarded full time deals Singleton,Stewart ,Hood and Casey.
There's plenty of potential in the u18's still and i'm sure we'll see more progress into 1st team players.
The "Golden generation" as you put won't be repeated for a long long time if at all but lets not forget there's still many of that era here and they have a few seasons at least in them to win more silverware with the right squad balance and coaching structure.

Thanks for the reply rhinoms, but I still think we have done a poor job bringing players through the ranks from Academy to 1st team.

You mention Ablett as being a recent regular - He was a squad member in the 2007 championship team and will turn 25 at Christmas - hardly the 'young blood' I was speaking of. Fair comment regarding McShane, BJB and Watkins, but I wouldn't comfortably consider them as '1st team regulars', would you?

So, my point about Leeds' failure to continue to bring kids through the ranks successfully may leave us with a gaping hole in the side as the older player just get, well... older.

If we want to replace the fogies in the squad, are we going to have to do it by signing accomplished/international players (who are hesitant to come and then feel homesick soon after getting here?)

Quote ="Luke Leaner"Thanks for the replay rhinoms, but I still think we have done a poor job bringing players through the ranks from Academy to 1st team. You mention Ablett as being a recent regular - He was a squad member in the 2007 championship team and will turn 25 at Christmas - hardly the 'young blood' I was speaking of. Fair comment regarding McShane, BJB and Watkins, but I wouldn't comfortably consider them as '1st team regulars', would you? So, my point about Leeds' failure to continue to bring kids through the ranks successfully may leave us with a gaping hole in the side as the older player just get, well... older. If we want to replace the fogies in the squad, are we going to have to do it by signing accomplished/international players (who are hesitant to come and then feel homesick soon after getting here?)'" The young guys on the fringes have the potential to be next stars of our 1st team and the very fact thay they are getting noticed within a squad that has won 3 GF's in a row bodes well for their futures imo. Ablett may not count as "young blood" but has come through the ranks to establish himself and that has only happened in the last 3 years whereas before he was on the fringes. Again the fogies will be replaced as and when whether that's from within the club structure or not i don't know but the likes of Watkins,Ambler,Bjb and Clarkson are more than capable of becoming automatic 1st choice starters. We may not get the sheer numbers of the past mate but the acadamy will still produce new quality players for us no doubts at all. Also worth noting that we will soon have a new u20's coach which who knows could help the production line improve and Bluey says himself we are targetting recruits in his post match interview. www.therhinos.co.uk/news/14983.php

Quote ="Luke Leaner"Thanks for the replay rhinoms, but I still think we have done a poor job bringing players through the ranks from Academy to 1st team. You mention Ablett as being a recent regular - He was a squad member in the 2007 championship team and will turn 25 at Christmas - hardly the 'young blood' I was speaking of. Fair comment regarding McShane, BJB and Watkins, but I wouldn't comfortably consider them as '1st team regulars', would you? So, my point about Leeds' failure to continue to bring kids through the ranks successfully may leave us with a gaping hole in the side as the older player just get, well... older. If we want to replace the fogies in the squad, are we going to have to do it by signing accomplished/international players (who are hesitant to come and then feel homesick soon after getting here?)'" The young guys on the fringes have the potential to be next stars of our 1st team and the very fact thay they are getting noticed within a squad that has won 3 GF's in a row bodes well for their futures imo. Ablett may not count as "young blood" but has come through the ranks to establish himself and that has only happened in the last 3 years whereas before he was on the fringes. Again the fogies will be replaced as and when whether that's from within the club structure or not i don't know but the likes of Watkins,Ambler,Bjb and Clarkson are more than capable of becoming automatic 1st choice starters. We may not get the sheer numbers of the past mate but the acadamy will still produce new quality players for us no doubts at all. Also worth noting that we will soon have a new u20's coach which who knows could help the production line improve and Bluey says himself we are targetting recruits in his post match interview. www.therhinos.co.uk/news/14983.php

Oh dear a thread stating the bloody obvious. Why do people only see it after a defeat?

When did the older boys resign ? Was it last night after the match ? Bit of an over eaction don't you think ?

Oh hang on a minute , I think you mean re-sign !!! DOH .....

I wouldn't worry too much about Sinfield. 30 isn't over the hill by any means so he'll have a good 2 to 3 years left at least. I do share the concerns over the older players though, the likes of Senior, Buderus, Peacock and Leuluai. You'll probably get decent stints out of all of them, but I hope they're used a bit more sparingly. Then you've got players who are picking up increasing numbers of niggling injuries and leaving the field early in the game which seems to be happening more and more often. I suspect next season will be similar to this in that we will be playing catch-up for most of it, but I hope some of the younger players establish themselves and then the future will look a little brighter.

It's not exactly time for panic and next season could be a surprise for us all, but the break up of this great team is getting nearer sadly.

lets not forget that these old fogies managed to get us 80 minutes from old trafford after one of the most injury ravaged seasons i remember
at the start of the season it seemed every game would have a player injured not to return in the first 10 minutes yet we still finished 4th and beat the grand finalists on the way to the cup final

you cant just promote youngsters for the hell of it and for a few years the starting 13 has picked itself so its been hard for players like broughton,gibson,ratu and even going back as far as fox to break thru
2012 will no doubt see some big changes with a lot of players moving on but i have faith that we will replace them with either quality youngsters or imports

what is the betting that Senior get another contract for 2012!!

There is a great saying "Necessity is the mother of invention" Leeds had no money so the only way they could have a successful side was to bring youngsters through. So what happened GH concentrated his efforts on developing youngsters and hey presto.

Now Leeds are not in that position and the focus/priorities have changed and the number of youngsters coming through has declined as the focus has moved.

No club serious about youth development puts Barrie McDermott in charge - it was be laughable if it wasn't so serious.

The club needs to restructure and re-staff the youth environment and then maybe the kids might start emerging. The likes of BJB and Watkins have emerged dispite not because of the youth development at Leeds

The U20s Grand Final took place yesterday at St Helens where they entertained Wigan U20s. Result Saints 22 Wigan 30.
Trouble is this is the third year running the U20s GF has been held between these two clubs. Great for Wigan and St Helens but where are the rest.

I well remember watching your "golden generation" play at Orrell 9/10 years or so ago. As mentioned JJB, McGuire, Walker, Calderwood etc. They have come through and have been the bedrock of your success.
It is very striking to me that Leeds U age teams have not been at the top as that group of players were.
Does this mean that the best talent of SL's future teams are at Wigan and St Helens?

You have a massive catchment area and there must be some outstanding talent out there. Is it the scouting, recruiting, training, retaining?
The last time I saw Leeds U20s was 2 years ago prior to the GF eliminator when Tim Smith and Paul Prescott were in the Wigan team as well as Ritchie Mathers who I think scored 3 tries. Wigan put 60+ past Leeds U20s. Not good is that!

For the good of the game we need a strong Leeds youth system and as the op suggested your squad is getting older.
Warrington are in a worse position that yourselves with next year 11 of their starting 17 being 30 or over.
Has GH taken his eye off the ball with this one?

There's no such thing as a "talent production line". Even with the best resources in the world, it could be a long time before we get a crop of young players come through like this one. That's not a problem with Leeds' youth system, i's a fact of sport. Manchester United's "crop" of youngsters in the early 90's (Scholes, Beckham, the Nevilles, etc) was their first genuinely good crop of players since the Busby team. Saints and Wigan will experience the same.

We'll continue to have some good players come through, they just won't come through as a team.

Yes interesting times ahead at Headingley.

I don't think Hetherington will splash the cash what with the stadium redevelopment and the distraction of the union boys.

By the end of next season you will have youngers coming through and be established.

This has got nothing to do with losing to Wigan. I would have posted the same comment, with the same words and in the same tone, win, lose or draw.

As for it being a thread stating the bloody obvious, that'll make it nice and simple to allow you to be able to add a reasoned, educated comment to the thread, won't it. Surely? Yes?


Thank feck you're here. There's nothing worse than missing an apostrophe out. I offer you and all those who were mentally scarred by my mistake the most humble apologies.

This has nothing to do with winning, losing, knee-jerk reacting, moaning, bleating or complaining. I am merely stating (a quite obvious fact, according to our self-righteous friend, Gotcha) that we don't have the same quality of youngsters coming through the ranks that we did some years ago and that we continue to play with a fiercely successful, yet ageing team who are only going to get older and slower as the years roll on. We don't seem to have the same youth policy that we did 8 and 10 years ago and that, surely, doesn't bode well for the future. It's a failure to plan in my eyes.

Serge/Father Ted - you're bang on the money.

Bats - then we have to point to the talent scouts and recruiting of skilled kids (which is how we built the incredible Academy team headed up by Sinny). I read with interest that Leeds have proudly announced the signing of 10 really talented youngsters. Maybe the powers that be are of the same opinion as me?

Spot on.

Best you can every expect long term from a youth system is a couple of squad members a year (of which maybe 1 in 4 will hopefully turn out to be real star)...

...and you should need more than that if the squad is managed properly. Is ours? Dunno but I'd give GH the benefit of the doubt given our success the last few years (and the mess we were in before he arrived)

Not really proved much of a distraction in the last few years have they?

Its easier for the young players to stake a claim in a team that is underperforming and has injuries. This is where we were in 2001 & 2002 when most of our golden crop of players stepped up. The players got their chance because of poor form & injuries to the likes of Ben Walker, Robbie Mears etc. Their class then enabled them to step up. Up until this season there have never been the injuries to give the opportunities to. The likes of McShane & Watkins have been given chances, but have never had the prolonged chance to prove themselves. Much as it is desirable, most coaches will pick their strongest 17, as they get judged on the results, not potential player development. This year has been great in that we have seen that Pitts, Ambler & Clarkson can do a job for us. Whether any of them will be a mega star remains to be seen

But none of the above are [ireally[/i products of the youth set up or Academy at Leeds, and that's my point. We used to be all conquering!

I'm mentally scarred that you don't know an apostrophe from a hyphen !

Don't you just love it ! HAHAHAHA

Clarkson is part of our acadamy set up and Ambler was signed from Salfords acadamy and played through our system for 2yrs.

David, what is the issue with Barrie? What is he doing so dreafully wrong for you to consider his appointment a joke?

Smith, Clarkson, BJB, Watkins, Ablett, Hall, McShane have all emerged in recent years and have all emerged since the golden era of Burrow, McGuire, JJB etc so are things really as bleak as being made out?

To be fair Gareth, you've named two (possibly three if you count Clarkson) players who would be in the first choice 17 if everyone was fit and available.

Not much of a return for the last 6-7 years of youth development, is it?

as david ward was the captain in the 70s & his son was one of the 2004 crop will we have to wait nearly a generation for the next great batch

Isn't that exactly what the Academy is for? When is everyone fit and available? You have a cap so your fringe players have to come from your Academy and you hope they're good enough to cement a place when they get a chance, as many of ours have been.

If you ignore the previous four to five years it's not. If you ignore that we built the team on the previous crop of youngsters so had very little player turnover or space for a plethora of juniors, it's not.

But why would you ignore those important factors? Why are our fans so ready to explain away our successes and jump onto our failures?

Less than half of the 2004 Grand Final winning side are still at Leeds, so it's a little misleading to suggest there has been "little player turnover" in recent years. That doesn't include those players who have been and gone again in the meantime such as Ellis and Mark O'Neill for example.

The bulk of new players who have cemented a place in the Leeds first choice 17 since 2004/5 have not been products from the Academy, they have either been recruits from overseas - e.g. Eastwood, Webb, Donald, Buderus - or acquisitions from other clubs - e.g. Peacock, Ellis, Kirke.

Over that 5-6 year span only Hall, Smith (before his departure to Union) and Ablett have cracked the first choice 17. While Leeds should be congratulated for being at the spearhead of developing and promoting young British talent in the early part of the century (and that level of development was freakish and sustainble), it's difficult to argue that the flow of players up from the junior ranks to plug the gaps when others leave hasn't stalled.

At least 7 remain, most of whom were Academy products. That's not bad going. I'd venture it's far better than most if not all other clubs in the league.

Why ignore SInfield, Burrow, McGuire, Hall, Bailey, JJB, Ablett, Diskin, Smith all of whom have cemented places and all of whom are Academy products.

How many games has Clarkson played? What constitutes cracking the first choice 17? Isn't the first choice 17 the 17 fit to play each week which often contains many other Academy products?

No it isn't, it's easy to argue. The argument being that there hasn't been the same necessity or opportunity because the team has been built around the crop that was produced prior to 2003.