Before you start.....no, this isn't anything to do with playing for penalties or yellow boots!

My point is - how bad is this bloke in defence??!!!

They put him at full back, I assume, for his attacking prowess, and ability to chime into the line. But on 4 occasions tonight, Leeds players walked over him to score tries.

People seem to reckon he's the messiah - yet he is a complete liability at the back. Whilst the lad grabbed a couple of tries, his powder puff attempts at preventing 4 resulted in Wigan losing the game. Richie Mathers would have been a better bet, and apparantly he wasn't Wigan's taste

People tell us that Tomkins should be ahead of McGuire for England slection, yet the bloke is worse defensively, and has nothing like the pedigree or history that McGuire does

No wonder England are sh*t when we embrace averageness so much!!

Sam Tomkins is good and has lots of potential but is is also very highly overhyped.

A very poor mans Shaun Edwards.

Sam isnt the best defensively at FB due to his size but in a defensive line when playing at stand off hes an extremely good defender.

Understatement to the night, after we all watched Doanld brush him aside like the bad smell he is!

What, you mean when he doesn't really need to tackle?







He's absolute garbage defensively, and I suspect everyone already knew that. I was slightly slow on the uptake, but watching sh*tty Leeds players walking over him tonight has made me realise what I have been missing!

I like Tomkins and would gladly swap him for the erroneously gifted McGuire.

I thought that he was poor defensively. I'd have expected more from him once Deacon went off too, but he was pretty quiet

Nonsense IMO.

What on earth does "erroneously gifted" mean?

He was given gifts in error? Might I suggest you master some shorter words before you start attempting the big 11 letter ones?

I think he means he's gifted at making errors . . . .

To be fair there's not many fullbacks who would've prevented Leeds scoring. Sam Tomkins is a very good player, over-hyped but not over-rated IMO

Oh. That makes sense then........ Let's see if he/she comes back and claims that's what they meant.

When mcguire was tomkins age he was even worse in defence. But he was scoring 40 trys a season.

I think he thinks he is better than he is & his attitude is awful - he is very petulant at times - & having watch the game last night - I've change my opinion of his brother Joel - I always thought he was the more sensible of the 2 - how wrong was I!!!

It's an oblique reference to McGuire's consistency and natural talent with regard to the accumulation of errors in his game.

2010 - 1st in SL with 48 errors.
2009 - Joint 17th in SL with 29 errors.
2008 - Joint 13th in SL with 25 errors.
2007 - 3rd in SL with 32 errors.
2006 - Joint 3rd in SL with 32 errors.
2005 - Joint 24th in SL with 22 errors.
2004 - Joint 9th in SL with 30 errors.

Wellens and Briscoe apart most if not all SL full-backs are appalling defenders and that includes all three available to Leeds when playing that position.

Just watching the replay of the game at the moment. I notice Mr Tomkins celebrated the score to make it 12-0 very much like Mr McGuire celebrated his match winner in the cup. Good to see we aren't whining and moaning to the extent the Wigan fans did.

According to Phil Clarke he's the most penalised man in Super League this season as he and the Sky team were on about how he could be a liability in the Four Nations giving the amount of penalties and therefore possession away that he does against what will be much tougher opponents than he faces week in week out in Super League

McGuire has been the best stand off in the league all season long, IMO. He's made some special plays. Look at the way he arced around Leuluai to get on the end of Webb's pass. Leuluai knew he was there and tried to position himself perfectly but McGuire just breezed by him.

Oh, and before any idiot says that is all he can do (as if that game breaking skill is not to be celebrated) admire his pass to Hall and his try saver on Roberts.

All an England coach can do is pick the best players in their respective position IMO and that must make McGuire a shoe in for the 6 jersey down under.

The pass to Hall was an absolute beauty. Great try that, especially how he bossed Eastwood out of the way as the ball was being played.

Are you kidding me? That's why you guys was booing him every time he touched the ball after it, nothing to do with the ball trapping incident as you boo'd him straight after that try, never known Leeds fans to single out one Wigan player since Andy Farrell, must be a threat.

Young Tomkins is a very special player. Irritating as hell from an opposition fan's viewpoint but a special talent, no doubt.

Pretty much the same with the likes of McGuire, Briers etc.. S Tomkins will be no different, Joel however needs to stop getting to excited and do the good things that he does do as IMO there's times this year when he's been better than Sam but he has too many brain farts.

Huge error counts and missed tackles notwitstanding?