Yesterday was a watershed for me and crystalised some thoughts I have been having for a while.

The nucleus of this team has been together for 5 years - if you take the Ferguson model it is about this time that he would be breaking it up.

Whilst it is commenable both financially and for the game as a whole that we bring the majority of our players through the academy we should not be so rigid as to let this policy get in the way of the quality of the side long term.

Taking this season as a whole we have not played to the levels of the same period last season and the drop in standard is alarming.

Squad strength is an issue you cannot be a top side and claim that Lee Smith is going to be one of your two starting centres simply because you failed to sign an adequate replacement. Buderus looks a pale imitation of the Aussie international and SOO player - has GH been once again duped by an older Aussie. Not replacing Toopi, Scruton or Ellis has left the squad bereft of quality in key positions. If Smith is also on way that leaves the squad with some big holes.

Are players such as Kirke, Burgess, Allen and Hall in the side because they are the best that have come through the academy or because they are of a suitable standard to play in a top side.

The other alarming sight is the disappointing form of the following: Diskin, Webb, JJB, Sinfield, Burrow, Donald and Kylie. Is this just a temporary thing or is this something more permenant?

Webb is a worry to me spinal injuries are terrible things to even normal citizens never mind elite sportsmen - he looks to be struggling with pace and movement. Diskin is another who has been blighted by injury and simply cannot function at the standard he once could.

I personally like McClennan as a coach and a man his humanity is to be admired - however questions must be asked of him as to why the team is playing so poorly - compare the well drilled crisp skills of the Saints side to the numb plodding Rhinos!! Is it down to the charges he has to use or he his own inability to extract the best out of the players under his command. In reality it is probably a bit of both.

For me some huge changes need making in the summer with the exodus of some well known and well loved faces at Headingley - the problem Leeds have is CEO whose love for the game overides his love for the club.

i agree smith will never be a centre and for the life of me i cannot understand why we persist with makeshift centres.

kirke i like and it is great to see a top side looking to sign a player from the lower leagues and improve him.

burgess drives the ball in far harder than bailey yet you choose not to mention him. burgess every time. he will only get better.

buderus cannot be judged now.would be stupid to do so.

with regards to form that is tempory.burrow,sinfield et al are class and will get back to a good level. it's the lack of enthusiasm that worries me. yesterday sinfield watched a salford player,who was a couple of feet away,put in a dangerous attacking kick and never even tried to close him down.
that is more worrying for me. last season he would have bust a gut to get to him.
i agree about GH. it seems he is more interested in the game than leeds. while this is commendable he shouldn't forget who pays his wages and there are two questions i would like answering.
1-who decides on player recruitment?
2-who decides if the coach is allowed to spend the full cap?

are the coaches hands tied?

does the coach get a free hand?

We lack real quality in the back line and we're a top player short in the 2nd row.. I feel like we've stood still and not moved forward and it's caught us out. GH has a history of doing this.

It comes as no surprise regarding Buderus... although he needs a good few games yet. It was bad news when he got injured after his first game here as Aussies have a bad track record when coming to SL with settling in and playing to there potential.. Matt king, Clyde, Mullins, Donald (dreadful first season), Mark O'neil, Pat Richards etc.. Kiwis on the other hand tend to settle quicker..

Player recruitment is hardly ever down to the coach. They're employment is so short term and so insecure, they could not take the long term view of what is best for the team when a run of poor results could see them sacked at any point.
Sure, they have an input, but you can't give personnel decisions to someone who is only likely to be around two or three years.

Another possible view on this is that this is the worst run of form we've had in quite a while. In sport all clubs have poor runs of form at some point, you can't put it off forever. I'm not suggesting the club don't need to look at what is wrong at the moment or do something about it, but I don't believe it's time to be hitting panic buttons. If looking at the situation leads to tohe conclusion that there are available players who could be brought in, so be it, but if those available players (or those who could be persuaded to become available) are not going to be both a significant improvement on what we have, and a sound long term investment, I'd rather not see mass panic.

Oh yes agreed mate - but we're not as strong as we could be which is frustrating. Your right there's no need to panic and i don't think there is but the squad must be strengthened this season otherwise we'll fall short. Saints are looking odds on for the double at this rate... but we've been there before

Wouldn't it be nice for us to be in that situation for a change though...

Although our attacking presence has been somewhat lack lusture, another vital aspect of the game has been somewhat shambolic... our defence.

Time and time again the players are tackling around peoples shoulders, or trying to get big hits in, and allowing players to turn and get an offload off.



I don't know how any of the coahing staff are missing it, and why they think its acceptable to tackle so high, as I'm sure if you ask any player where they were taught to tackle.... they'll say around the legs.

Buderus is a crock, and his arrival has completly unsettled diskin, as well as rumour has it the remainder of the team!!

Yet another GH blunder.

Apart from McGuire, Burrow & Donald, our whole backline needs reshuffling and some serious recruitment.

Webb doesn't look a patch on what he was, and as sad as it is to say having suffered a serious back injury, i doubt he will get it back either

Need a serious replacement for Toopi!! Ablett, isn't a centre... let alone a winger where he played yesterday, Gibson isn't yet what he once was, and smith isn't a centre either. Watkins is one for the future, and shouldn't be rushed.

In additon to that, this could well be Senior's last season.....

Or perhaps the defeats to Saints hit the team hard? You prepared well for the Saints games with almost full strength sides and still came up short. It's bound to knock the confidence.

They were poor even before the Saints game to be fair.

Agree completley with those. Obviousley we need to work in the salary cap but surely there is room.

I should imagine there is plenty of room but with the recession i think Heatherington wants to hang onto his money.

After we got knocked out of the CC there was an interview with Heatherington in the Yorkshire Evening Post, basically talking about the financial implications of been knocked out so early on. He seemed like a man that wants to keep hold of his money at this current time.

I have to say I'm really surprised at Leeds dip in form lately. Up to the Saints Leeds league match I thought you looked easily the best team in the league and way better than us. I was moaning about our lack of recruitment and thinking Leeds would walk away with all the trophies this year. It's not over yet though, plenty of time for Leeds to find some form and for the wheels to fall off at Knowsley Road - I wonder when/what this season's Knowsley Road scandal will be - Leon Pryce probably.

Jesus how long have I got on this thread!!!!!



It's not going too well is it. Reflecting on the season so far, out of our 'big' games there's been three (Saints twice and WCC), and we've lost them all. Another pattern is those games is that we have been comfortably beaten in each one and just scored late consolation scores to make the scoreboard look more reasonable. Maybe this has papered over the cracks, maybe a total blow out in these games would have given us a earlier wake up call. So in this context the Salford game this was only a matter of time.

Our form in general, over the season, hasn't been good. And what has been harder to pin-point is the reason why. I mean we seem to be failing as a group rather than individually. As a team we haven't got the ball going. So many gmaes have been dead around the 60 minute mark, we make life hard for ourself. And for the first time in years I wonder if it's a fitness issue? There's no spark or tempo to our play.

The players need to be honest and hold their hands up. they are cutting corners as proffesionals. In any other industry you get found out, and Leeds have been and need to improve. Especially after yesterdays blow-out. Too many problems to mention. I'll try my best:

- Defensive line, going back the 10 m, at walking pace. They need to get back and turn and face. Then when we are back in line, there were holes all over the place. The players are hoping someone else makes the tackle, they need to hold their hand up and get stuck in.

- Markers, biggest joke of the Salford game. It seems we've regressed back to the markers being players who have a rest. Simply cutting corners.

- Bailey and Burgees in their first stint. Didn't do the donkey work, didn't look for the ball, didn't make the hard yards. These two illustrate the lack of depth in this position. If we'd had other options we could drop Bailey or Kylie for example, but we can't afford to do so. So your left with recycling the 4 props.

- Attack, what attack? The pack over the last few weeks has been easily neutralised. This makes is very hard for our pivots then. Our second phase is just not there. And when someone does make a break (think Buderus in the 1st half), where were the options, Leeds of old would have had Webb on one side and McGuire or Burow on the other, and what did we have? Not a lot, McGuire eventually got there, but then the ball wasn't on.

- And what does all this bring to the boil? Frustration. Which then leads to penalties, stupid f*cking penalties. We winge and we moan rather than being pro-active in defense or attack. Diskin highlighted this for me. He gave a penalty for holding (shock I know), obviously disputed the call and was in discussion with Child (this I don't mind, I encourage open dialogue between players and refs), but guess who, was still bleeting for the next three tackles on the shoulder of Child? You guessed it. So we are hardly helping ourself.

In Bluey I trust. This will give him a test. We were all happy enough with him at the end of last season, we've done so well over the last few years, so this bit of rough has to be weathered. A few boos lingered at the end of th match, what a bunch of 'tards. I wasn't happy with what I saw, but only the players can recify this. I back them, it wasn't pretty and I don't want to see a repeat of it for quite some time. We love the smooth we have to put up with the rough, and we've experienced a hell of a alot worse than this.

Squad - no doubt the right centre issue will get dragged up again after this. I will add this - Ben Jones-Bishop can add his name to the list of wingers on the right who have seen sod all ball.

Positives - only one for me - JP. This guys on another planet, always battering forward and must demand the same level of commitment form his other team mates. On a trerrible afternoon, he shone, like he always does.

Credit Salford - They stuck to their game-plan and fully derseved the 2 points. I thought Smith and Myler ran the show. You know what they are going to do, careful recyling of the ball and then look for the kick (either long down field, which were all superb) or an attacking kick in the danger zone. Cashmere et al were strong enough in defense and Wilshere was superb in attack form deep on joining the attacking line, did we ever end up tackling that guy?

In summary - if you cut corners, you get found out. Sleeves need to be rolled up and players need to apply themsleves better. We have no tempo in our game, we need to find something. There's a lot of games to go, so plenty of time to swing things round. We know when we need to peak, but we do need to start rolling into some kind of form. The differnce between us now and at the start of the season, was least then we had our steel in defense. Hard work pays off, we need to remember that.

How do we expect our backline to perform when we only have one forward in J Peacock.

Nobody is prepared to run the ball in and are stood around like statues.

Ablett should be in the 2nd row as he is a grafter not centre he is clearly too slow.

Burrow and McGuire cant manouvure around the park as the forwards arent doing any work for them

And for half backs they are doing far too much tackling which takes away the most important part of their game.

Apart from those two and Webby and Donald the Whole backline needs to be looked at.

I think we need a new Centre 1 new Prop and 1 new Second rower.

I thought Buderus looked good yesterday, but anyway.

David, I think you make an absolute spot on point, about potentially been together too long.

Players careers are much shorter than some fans take into account. And it is true that certain players look far from what they have shown previously.

I was talking before the game to the guy who set up the Leeds scholoship system years ago, when players like Holroyd and Cummins signed. I only know him as Ken, never found out second name. He was also in charge when Burrow and McGuire signed.

He was making the exact same point before the game. That perhaps a couple of the players have been around a little too long, and maybe for both parties a change is needed.

Personally, I think you could add Inglis, Folou, Gidley, whoever in the right centre and it would make jack difference. The forwards are light, and the halfbacks are simply not performing. I like McGuire, because he still gives things a go even when things are not working. But despite my admiration for Robs effort and and all guts displays, I still get bored of his predictability, and he was played off the park by his oppossite yesterday. More important is that neither of these halfbacks could organize a pish up in a brewery. We need to revert to Sinfield taking control of the organizing.

I do not feel that we will get out of this mess this year, unless we change the tactics fast. Those interceptions yesterday were not just poor passes. We are simply predictable. We are the only team now in Super League continuing to only have one game plan, of flat passes. Those flat passes are becoming easier to pick off.

Some people keep saying about the blip we had last year. But this is completely different. This is not a blip, we have not played well all season. The quality on offer is shocking, and way short of anything in the last 7 years.

As i've posted on another thread, it's a bit of both. The squad isn't good enough at present and they're not playing well as a team. and haven't done all season so far. Some times when your not playing well top class strike players get you out of trouble unfortunatley we're lacking in that dept.

Totally agree with that. Good post.

Personally the players all look knackered to me. After playing 10 minutes yesterday most looked out of it. This was summed up with little support for the Buderus break and only JJB chasing back for one of the Salford breaks. It's leading to big holes in defence and sloppy passing in attack.

Whether this is down to starting the season earlier than most other teams, the WWC match, the physical matches against Saints, having a light pack or the fact we have so many Internationals who got a shorter off season I don't know. Maybe things will improve after the next round of the CC.

Good posts to read and agree with. Will still be at Huddersfield on Saturday and cheering not booing!!

Happily or not you have 4 weekends off during the season now to give your players breaks when they need them...

The one bonus of not being in the challenge cup is you can rotate the squad and be fresh come September - which is all Leeds need to do - they have easily one of the 2 if not THE best team in the comp form is temporary

I just think we need a big shake up - that will mean breaking up this side. If they fail to reach the GF - I personally think they will beat Huddersfield on Saturday and they will reach the GF - then I can see some heads rolling amongst the playing staff.

I agree with much of what you put above however I cannot agree with the Sinfield comment - he is at the heart of everything Leeds do as captain he should lead by example - sadly he own form is at rock bottom - his defence is terrible, he missed kicks yesterday that he needed to kick and I lost count of the number of kicks that went dead or straight to the opponent. The other two half backs didn't cover themselves in glory either - compare Sinfield's performance to that of Peacock - who put in a captain's knock yesterday - as part of the reorganisation maybe a change of captain is required.

Is it that they are knackered or is there "trouble at mill"? Looks like some players don't want to know, could it be the old Gallagher/Schofield syndrome but this time with Budderus? If so then Bluey needs to drop some of them even if we have no decent replacements.

Don't agree with that one. Sinny's been one of our best performers so far, his form will pick up again. We must start winning the battle up front first and foremost - the pack has been a key weapon in our success of the last 4 years. This will then help the halfs and loose F dominate the game. We seem to be going sideways all the time as we're not making the inroads we should.

Eccleshill has suggested our CEO who in 13 years has delivered almost as many championship sides as the club earned in its' previous 100 years is "the problem" with the club.

He has also suggested taking the captaincy from Leeds most successful captain ever.

This after 3 defeats and 10/11 games into the League season.

Funnily enough after a similar number of games last year he was hailing the current coach (who he is now criticising) as Leeds greatest ever coach.

I'll make no judgment on Eccleshill's wild and reactionary mood swings but simply thought I'd point this out as some context for his thoughts.

Hopefully so but his kicking on the 5th tackle was appalling yesterday