If you're interested in supporting the Refuse workers that are facing a 20 - 30% wage cut then please read on. Quote GMB & Unison Presents Refuse to be Beat With Keith Allen & his 12 piece band With very special guests and appearances on the night! to Friday. No booking fee when bought direct from O2 Academy box office. www.o2academyleeds.co.uk www.ticketweb.co.uk Tel: 08444 77 2000 Tickets also available from Venue Box office Mon–Sat 12pm-5pm No booking fee on cash transfers Please invite all your friends and family to the event! '" As Robbie was pictured handing a cheque to the strikers, does anybody know the best way to get in touch with the players - the club might not want to get involved but individual players might. Cheers

If you're interested in supporting the Refuse workers that are facing a 20 - 30% wage cut then please read on. Quote GMB & Unison Presents Refuse to be Beat With Keith Allen & his 12 piece band With very special guests and appearances on the night! to Friday. No booking fee when bought direct from O2 Academy box office. www.o2academyleeds.co.uk www.ticketweb.co.uk Tel: 08444 77 2000 Tickets also available from Venue Box office Mon–Sat 12pm-5pm No booking fee on cash transfers Please invite all your friends and family to the event! '" As Robbie was pictured handing a cheque to the strikers, does anybody know the best way to get in touch with the players - the club might not want to get involved but individual players might. Cheers

As opposed to those poor souls who currently are/are about to find themselves with no job at all?

Yes, I agree taking a pay cut is not ideal but thats the current climate the UK and majority of Europe finds itself in.

Could you lose a third of your pay and continue to pay the bills?

The politics of this is quite interesting but would probably not be allowed on here.

Other Councils have had this problem to deal with and have gone about it in a totally different manner than the Tories & Lib Dems in Leeds and have found solutions to the problem that all parties can agree with.

Ask yourself why Leeds seem unable to follow suit.

All councils have cuts to make, it just depends which department they choose to cut

I've lost exactly a half of our household income this year and we're managing - just.

Theres nothing wrong with discussing the politics of the issue here, I'm quite fascinated by the shenanigans over the past few weeks and think theres been a lot of posturing on both sides, a couple of points that have been extracted ...

1. The department seems to have an extremely high rate of sickness absence, an average of 30 days per year per employee was the figure mentioned and then not denied by the union, it was suggested by the employer that most of the absences were due to the four day rosters where you could ring in sick one day and I would be called in on my fifth day off to be paid overtime to cover you, I'd then reverse the favour next month. Again this has never been denied and IMO reflects badly on both union and management.

2. Approx five years ago the department was classified as "not offering value for money to the taxpayer" by an audit commission survey and had there licence to collect trade waste revoked. Trade users like myself had to seek the likes of Biffa to collect our waste at that point, if it wasn't for that then the streets of central Leeds would be in a hell of a state by now - again this is an issue that has never been publicly acknowledged in the arguments as it reflects badly on both sides.


But please feel free to debate.

I'd go to this event but guess it would be a load of rubbish.

My income has redcued significantly this tax year to last and I am getting by. Mind yuo, it did go through the roof the other year.

BOOM BOOM

We've lost a good chunk of our income.

September last year the company didn't pay commission for a month to help with cash flow - means I'm still owed about £500 take home pay 13 months on.

In March this year they halved the commission and bonus payments. The impact of that has varied month to month between losing £300 off the monthly take home and over £1000, typically about £500.

In June, July & September we also were encouraged to 'volunteer' for a 7.5% temporary pay cut from the basic too.

On top of this we've been paid 10 days late one month and had expenses payments pushed back by 2 weeks every month since April. They cost me over £200 in charges for late payments.

I sold alot of stuff recently to help us catch up on our payments (and buy me a bike with the left overs) and things have looked good for a couple of weeks and moving forward.

Then today I got an email to say the pay date is being pushed back, with immediate effect, by 2 weeks i.e. after the various direct debit dates. I've spoken to the bank and they refuse to move the mortgage date or provide a payment holiday - the only option they'll offer is to recapitalise a month's payment (increasing interest and badly effecting our credit rating). On top of that the missus called to say her salary is being cut by 10% from December.

I can't remember the last time I had a day off sick. Certainly not for at least 2 years. I do know that when my employer chops my income I don't get protected for 3 minutes let alone 3 years.

On top of this the bins are full, and the bin bags are piling up by the door. I do have some sympathy with the bin men's cause but I also belive there's a little more to it then the union might (understandably) wish to portray.

I guess my sympathy is a little more limited nowadays than it might previously have been.

Are these the same people who work from 0730hrs (I believe this is the earliest they can begin leaving for the streets. To approx Midday? But still draw a wage for 37.5hrs a week?

I dont know who you work for but that sounds decidedly dodgy in terms of the way they operate their business, moving pay dates?

Commission & bonus are extras and, a bit like overtime, should never be relied on as always being there.



Still not as bad as a cut from £18000 down to £12000



I assume you're in a non-union business.



Have you still got your house? Some of the Refuse Workers may lose theirs.




How many employees are there ? Over a certain size they have to have a Consultation Forum and this should have been discussed there.



sounds like you've got a e employer - I bet the senior mangement aren't facing the cuts etc.

Not sure with payment dates titch. I know they can't touch your basic without formal agreement but bonus and commission schemes can be shot down at will.

Problem for me vs others in the company is that a reasonable proportion of my pay is commission. There are plenty of others who are completely unaffected by changes there so the burden is heavier here.

Difficulty is that you don't want to rock the boat - I'd rather be paid less than nothing - so even 'voluntary' requests for further cuts (when you might feel you're already being hit very hard) tend to be complied with.

I used to work with a lad whose wife was one of the admin staff for LCC Refuse Dept. Apparently they kicked off big style if they'd not cleared their rounds by 2:00pm and on their merry way home.

I've not had a bonus this year and also a pay freeze (which in relative terms is a pay cut although my income hasn't physically been cut), but in this economic climate I thank myself lucky to be going to work at all.

My company made 30 redundancies in the last 12 months.

The last thing that I would do would be to rock the boat.

Take the cut and thank God that you've got a job

Citizen John eh?

I lost all respect for the binmen when they refused to empty my€ wheelie bin due to it being overfull (the lid was ajar by approx 1"icon_wink.gif.

The reason it was full is becasue they hadn't collected it the week before!!!

Therefore my opinion is this, pay them 12k/year and give them a performance pay related kicker with KPI's in place to minimise sickness, improve collection efficiency and generally get some accountability in place.

Are these the same pay cuts that have been in the pipeline for the last three years?

I dont get how it works but.

Is this Leeds City Council that want bin men to take a pay cut the same council that have spent £6m on Leeds Uniteds training ground?

INVESTED, the word is INVESTED.

I'm of an age when I can vividly remember the miners strikes. A harsh lesson was learned.

You mean the council have bought a prime piece of development land that they have contracted client for the rental for the forseeable future - seems like good business to me!!!

I'll have anoter one of the Pork Pies, I say, I'll have another one of those Pork Pies.

My firm has made 50 people redundant this year we have had a pay freeze - effectively a pay cut - you expect us to be sympathetic to bunch of individuals that through their own actions have brought about their own downfall - you are serious deluded

Its a pity the unions didn't encourage their members to actually attend work and meet their contractual hours - £9hr for unskilled labour that says to me that it had a limited lifespan once the recession hit and the fact the union and its members didn't see it coming shows both in their true light.

Not many sales jobs exist without them. We take lower salaries with the payback that if we secure revenue we'll be rewarded.




My income is reduced by significantly more than that proportionately and absolutely [iand [/i with immediate effect. There's no 3 year moratorium here.




Correct. Had it been a unionised business and the union & workforce opposed the changes the company would have folded and I'd have been jobless.




Yes. We were in arrears for two months and will be again next month.

The bin men have a 3 year moratorium before they'd be facing any arrears and even then that would be if they chose not to find alternatative employment in the intervening 3 years.




150 odd.



Actually, they took 12.5%, and as shareholders probably lose a good deal more than that.

The issues are that overall revenues are down due to the recession; clients are paying more slowly and the bank has cut the company overdraft. All big impacts on cash flow.

and



My company has paid below inflation rises for the past 5 years, implemented a pay freeze this year, is closing our DB pension scheme and trying to make 1200 out of 6000 staff redundant.

Fortunately I'm not one of the 6000 in-scope for redundancy but you can bet your bottom dollar that I will be doing the best I can as a Union member and a member of our works Consultative Forum to fight all of these and if that means I go on strike then so be it.

Puig's company seems to be genuine in its problems but many companies, mine included, appear to be crying wolf when they don't have a real problem.

Trade Unions are there for a reason, like any insurance policy and I am certainly glad I am a member of one otherwise I'd be on every time.
At least with a Union there's some chance of standing up against bullying bosses.
Thatcher tried to destroy Unions but didn't quite manage it. If you want a return to pre-Union days then be my guest but they're not for me.

It appears to me with many SMEs it's a very fine balance between crying wolf and going under. Poor cash flow can often be a hand to mouth situation at the best of times. Payroll can wipe a bank account out in an instant, then you have loads of other considerations; VAT, PAYEE etc. If your cash flow projection is cut by, say 40% over night (the figure Tescos made all their construction related suppliers make recently) do you hold tight and hope, or think about the greater good? Surely reacting quickly may possibly save more jobs in the long run, rather than lumbering along hoping for the best?

My company has reduced it rates to remain competitive in the current market where we complete in a global market economy. As a result they've passed these savings directly onto us i.e. salaries etc. It's to be expected since we are the company's biggest cost (and revenue earner - skills based industry).

Personally I'm not as cynical to assume a company would make cuts for convenience/feathering their nest even if they appear as though they're not in strife.

With regards to the bin men; I suspect it might be a culture issue that is common-place with non-commercial enterprises, like the civil service, where it clearly is considered acceptable to take 30 days sick per year, and get as much out of the system as you can. These benefits are not available to me, and even if they were I doubt I'd use them to these extents. I have some pride and think it would reflect badly on me.

Is it possible that if there wasn't a general p*ss take culture in the first place their whole pay structure may have been left alone?