So with Walters and Kruise being lorded by Wigan, who are a very successful club in todays terms. What is it that Leeds fail to see in these players to not try to retain their services?

Leeds wanted to keep Walters, he chose to move on.

Leeming wanted to start games and get in the England team, he chose to move on.

What is it that Leeds can see that Wigans management can’t.

We have Mcdonnell, works both ways

Walters was offered an Improved deal, he wanted out as he thinks he should be first choice and wanted more than we were prepared to play for a squad player One half decent game against a poor Huddersfield does not make him a world beater.
Holroyd is slightly younger and already miles better, Okedski is mikes better (and still only 24) Walters may come good at Wigan, but may be just another squad filler.

Leeming threw teddy out of pram after lousing his place due to his own poor form.

As for Wigan being a successful club. Last 4 years 1 grand final appearance and 1 CC win, same as us.

Exactly and based on current ability we have the better player. McDonnell gets evermore impressive, Walters just a big lad not quite living up to potential.

We signed OConnor at same time as Walters and OConnor established first choice 9

I never commented on Walters as we don't know any details.
leeds may have made a decent offer but wigan offered a huge one.
he may want to be nearer home. disappointing but there you go.
leeming I couldn't care less about

Likewise not fussed about leeming. OTOH I'd likely regard him more highly if I was watching Sam Powell plod around the park each week.
Walters is a genuine unknown for me. I think he may already have reached his max potential but there's a vague unease others have seen something I haven't.

like you I've never got the hype with powell. or mcillorum come to that

Cheers for useful thoughts and comments.
Makes a change on here to not be jumped on for asking a question but responses make sense
Interesting about Walters being offered terms but I always thought being away from home may be an influencer.
Leeming - well I’m not sure about. I always liked the time we had 2 hungry hookers fighting to out shine each other and I liked Leeming but accept he had good games and average games. McDonnell is a great prospect.
I suspect Wire on Thursday will define our remains of the 23 season. Fingers crossed

Cheers for useful thoughts and comments.
Makes a change on here to not be jumped on for asking a question but responses make sense
Interesting about Walters being offered terms but I always thought being away from home may be an influencer.
Leeming - well I’m not sure about. I always liked the time we had 2 hungry hookers fighting to out shine each other and I liked Leeming but accept he had good games and average games. McDonnell is a great prospect.
I suspect Wire on Thursday will define our remains of the 23 season. Fingers crossed

Neither are a great loss. Leeming will cause issues wherever he goes he is that kind of individual. His ego is bigger than his ability. A hooker in the modern game needs to be a very good defender and have the ability to read the play - Leeming had neither of these skills. He was a runner who found it impossible to link with his half backs so any kind of structured play wasn't possible when he was on the field.

Walters - to early to tell - is he prop is he a back row what is he. Sad to see youth development wasted but as has been pointed out we have benefitted from too much talent at Wigan. Is all the disappointment because we are producing so little forward talent from the academy that he looks better than he really is?

Reported that Catalans pulled out of signing Leeming because of his wage demands.They were not prepared to make him a marquee signing.If true then Wigan may have paid way over the odds for a above average nine.

I'm ok with that.

Leeming and Walters may both do well at Wigan. I actually hope Walters kicks on because he could be something different for England. Having said that its just as likely he'll never develop.

Leeming left because he was behind a kid who'd never played hooker till halfway through last season. If he'd been performing there's absolutely no way that would have happened. This year he just took his bat home and left on pretty poor terms with the club, not just Smith. There was absolutely no need for that, and it wouldn't be a surprise if his attitude was a problem within the squad for a while before he left. Hopefully finding that in the NRL he was still a bench player will have grounded him a bit.

Smith made some interesting comments just after Leeming left about OConner - something along the lines of he's a player who plays for the team and not himself - I always thought that was Smith reacting to Leemings press release which was clearly a dig at Smith.

If Wigan have used a Marquee spot on him Id say that they've massively over valued how good he actually is, good luck to them.

Whatever we think of Smith, it looks like (from the outside) that both O'Connor and Walters were poorly used and developed under Agar. Thankfully they have both been able to ressurect their careers.

O'Connor's strengths were recognised by Smith, and injuries to Leeming and wayward form from Dwyer gave him the chance he needed.

Smith was the first coach to realise that Walters could be used effectively as a makeshift prop - it's a shame he had fewer opportunities this season, but it's understandable why. When used last season Walters was directly responsible for several soft tries being conceded through 'clocking off' in goal line defence or at marker. He also had a few better and more reliable players ahead of him, although I would have liked to retain Walters if possible since he has he has a bit of an x-factor about his game.

Not only that, he is prepared to make tough calls based on the long term future. Too many Leeds coaches of recent years have been too loyal to underperforming players, and he doesn't seem to tolerate that too much.

I'm still undecided about Smith, I really swing between. I was at Wigan away earlier in the season and at half time, I thought he would be sacked after the game. Then we can back and won in the second half. The season is so unpredictable!

People on here know I like Smith and want him to stay - but opinion aside he has said numerous times that one of the main reasons he got the job was because of his ability bringing younger players through, now it may well be that once he has achieved that we get another coach to take that younger team to the next level - a bit like Powell getting rid of dead wood and then Uncle Tony coming in to get them over the line.

However I'd like to think Rohan can get them over the line in his tenure.

there's no doubt he is brilliant at coaching younger players.
it's the game plans he needs to get right. hopefully he will continue as he did last week and play a more traditionalgame

The players need to do their bit aswell, game plan aside (which having watched it back was executed to near perfection against Huddersfield) they need to cut out stupid errors.

Do that and we have a chance

I honestly thought he would be sacked after the Wakefield game.
And I don't think I would have been bothered.
But fair play, looks like we are sticking by him.
And under massive pressure, he delivered in the Hudds game.
We looked like a well coached, well organised team for the first time in ages.
Hopefully we can keep that up and Smith shows he's up to it for the long haul.
If we continue with performance like that, I'd be more than happy for him to be backed.
But if we go back to the garbage from the previous weeks, the knives will be out again.
Fine lines in sport sometimes.....

it's not fine lines there's a massive gulf between the good and bad performances

I agree some of our performances have been dire but it is still fine lines in terms of wins/losses and what that means.

If Martin kicks that penalty against saints, we don’t bomb those early chances against Wakefield, Olpherts catches that easy pass against Cas away, we don’t clock off in the last 5 minutes at Magic, Newman passes to Myler in the cup, were looking at a total different scenario.

But alas we are where we are.

That`s what I said previously.
Beat Cas twice and Wakefield and we`re 3rd.

ifs and buts. all teams could say the same (wakefield apart).