I worry that we have no assistant coach who can offer an alternative view to B M's, and also someone with some ability to implement a team attacking structure to lean on, which stands some chance of getting the ball out to our backs with room to take us forward.
The appointment of someone with vision is IMO vital
The other aspect to this seems to make the coach unsackable mid term, unlike with Wakey and
Hull KR. Another match following a change of coach.......we will need to up our aggression and energy.

Firstly, why would we want to sack our coach? We're doing well this season.

Should we lose the semi-final, finish 6th in the league and lose in the first round of the playoffs then maybe I'll let you have this discussion.



What?! Do you want to clarify what you mean.

It's quite frustrating that every time it's mentioned that it's time for McDermott to go, people on here instantly say we're jumping the gun based on a couple of performances but if we're honest, we haven't played an exciting brand of rugby for a number of years now. The selections have been questionable at best and although at the beginning of this season our defence was solid its now nothing more than a shambles. Even when the defence was solid a lot of it was scrambling and last minute tackles and saves (the amount of times Hardaker has held an opposition player up is impressive).

So I'm not saying it's time to wield the axe, but what I would question is at what point do we start to question the coaches ability to field a consistent team? Hull KR who I thought were playing well, especially in the game against Huddersfield axed Sandercock without hesitation - as the OP states, why is Mac unsackable? Why shouldn't we question his game tactics, yes we may end up turning the season around but if you compare our team to that of the likes of Wigan, Warrington and Cas we're definitely 4th if not 5th/6th best in the league...

I await the comments regarding our league position, I am already aware we are 2nd with good points difference but that doesn't answer the questions above.

I still also think we need a good assistant coach, all the big teams have one - what makes us any different?

Look around you. All the other top clubs are dropping points or not hitting top form. Pots aren't won in July.

Same thread, different name.

And I worry that there are supporters who cry for the head of the coach when things are not going well. May I remind you that with almost three quarters of the season gone we are still in 2nd place and in the semi final of the cup once again. At the half way point we were top and the form side in the competition and that during this period we had the best defence and our backs were scoring plenty of trys. In fact despite the recent leaky defence we still have let in the fewest points.

Since then several things have happened which have brought about a drop in performance. Firstly injuries and in particular the loss of Burrow for so long as he is such a key attacking player no matter what position he occupies. Secondly loss of form of other key players for example Sinfield who for so long has been a key part in our attacking plays. Thirdly some of the youngsters and reserves have shown why they are not yet ready to replace the regular first choices. And last but not least the extended suspension of an in form Hardaker has also played a negative part.

None of the above important factors could in any way be due to BM. Having worked well pre-season to get the team in shape for a good start he also had them peak for the tough run of fixtures that took us to the top. It was only to be expected that there would be a drop off in the mental intensity at some stage and the injuiries to in-form players have compounded this.

No matter how good the coach he cannot give a player form and players have only one way to recover lost form - and that is by playing. Gone are the days when senior players could have a couple of weeks in the 2nd team to regain form. The likes if Sinfield can hardly turn out for the U/19s can he?

You also assume that when the team are not playing well or individuals make wrong decisions on the field it is the fault of the coach or a "lack of structure". Getting a team to run like a well oiled machine is not easy and requires that the players follow the game plan and practiced structures but it doesn't take much for all this to go wrong and when it does it is usually a player or players who are at fault.

Fortunately most of the other top sides have been going through similar patches of poor form and injuries. So on the positive side we have quite a number of key players to return. Burrow, Sinfield. Hardaker, Ablett. JJB, Leuluai plus Kirke Achurch and Clarkson too. Once the coach has this lot back in contention he will be able to build up the mental intensity for the business end of the season and hopefully a return to form and sharpness.

What's wrong with some people?
Basically if we're not winning 40-0 every week some people aren't happy. And I'm willing to bet they'd find some other reason for the coach to be sacked.
I'm willing to debate things the coach has got wrong, some of his selections at centre earlier in the season, or leaving players on the bench for instance. But I don't believe it's the coach's fault when senior, experienced players don't play well enough.
Players like Sinfield, McGuire, Bailey, Kirke etc haven't been good enough or haven't stood up to lead when they should at times this year. That's by far a bigger reason for our disappointing performances at times, in my opinion.

I agree with all this. However, would respectfully add that I do think the same applies to a lot of other coaches who have actually bitten the bullitt.

Truth is, IF he fails this year, I can see it taken out of his hands and changes will be made by the club. Those changes may only include hand picking themselves a fulltime assistant, or make a more long term decision of planning new coach for at the end of 2015.

Isn't it naturally winding to an end anyway of Macs tenure? this is Mac's 4th season (??) in charge, a change wouldn't be surprising. to freshen things up etc. With the vital pivots nearing an end of their careers over the next couple of seaons, may need someone special to oversee that transition.

Has anyone (tvoc) got any stats on what the average SL coach's tenure is? 4 years does sound about right but not having any stats to back this up it is simply a guess.

we are second on the ladder and in the cup semi,hardly crisis times.lets have this discussion in october. teams always have off periods throughout a season and ours is now it seems.im sure we will find some decent form by the time we play wire next month.

It's ironic that the knives are out for Brown at saints, who are obviously top of the league. A strange situation indeed.
What's really hit us hard is rob burrows injury, whilst sometimes he may not make everyone happy he is definitely a game winner.
At the moment lets keep calm and carry on. Obviously if we don't get to wembly or old trafford the situation will need addressing .
What would help is the addition of an assistant attack coach, prefably an ex threequarter . At the moment our threequarter offence and movement is predictable.

The knives are out for Brown, because supporters are paying good money and are getting crap on the pitch. I must admit I said a couple of weeks ago to some mates that I could not understand how Saints were top of the league, as every time I had seen them they were really disappointing. They obviously have had some luck, and to be fair earlier in season when they had a run when defeats seemed inevitable they all admitted that.

However, funny how Saints fans can recognise their problems even when at the top, but we are not allowed to here by some posters, due to historical trophies.

I am not certain about Saints being crap as I don't watch them on a week to week basis. If they are crap as you claim and top of the league,what does that say for the rest of the league .
I notice that some of the saints fans were in raptures after the Wigan victory,as you quite rightly say they are unhappy after the HKR setback. As our American cousins would say, go figure.

IIRC Jamie Peacock was recently interviewed on Sky suggesting that at this time of the season the players at top clubs simply aren't as motivated compared to the beginning and end. I suspect this, combined with a few key injuries, sums up why Leeds aren't exactly hitting their straps right now (and also why fringe players like Walters often look the most enthusiastic).

I certainly don't like it and it doesn't make for entertaining rugby, but it makes sense the way the season is structured. Of course it will all be for naught if Leeds don't pick anything up at the end of the season, but I suspect most fans remember the seasons in which we win silverware over those in which the team had burnt out by August (2005 comes to mind).

Unless we are not making the play-offs or are relegation candidates at this stage, I reiterate that it is pointless to think about changing the coach at this stage of the season. He must be judged by how the team perform in September/October. Last year did not go so well at that time, so another disappointing season would hopefully trigger the search for a successor if needed.

Is he unsackable? Why does anyone even think that? How many top teams have sacked a coach when in the mix at the top in English RL, it might happen in football but not this sport.

I do believe however some thought should perhaps be going into who will be next in line (perhaps it already is for all we know) as next year will be McDermott's 5th which is quite a while nowadays and possibly should be his last.

We've seen however with the Powell-Smith and also McClennen-McDermott "changes" that we try to do things a certain way of 'passing over' rather than just saying "you're sacked, he's a new guy" although to be fair they might as well have been for all intents and purposes

As for an assistant YEP had this after Lowes was confirmed to Bradford....



So they have apparently been looking for someone, just haven't found the person whose the right fit and I'd rather patience was taken with any appointment rather than rushed simply because we don't have an assistant.

I would rather they follow your initial point above, and take the decision on an assistant out of McDermotts hands, and the club appoint one to succeed him going forward.

Going slightly off thread it will be interesting to see how the new HKR coach performs. This after HKR sacking sandercock, who had some bad luck with players leaving and injuries.
The same also at cas for next season as they seem likley to lose some top players. I really rate powell as a coach so lets see how he performs without clarke, huby etc etc.
I was surprised to see powell sign a long term deal with cas,as I believe he is a big pal of GH so if the wheels fall of the Mac bandwagon he would have been straight in.
All the professional players I know without exception speak very highly of powell.
Anyway it's all building up to a very intriguing end of season finale, the only team I fear is Wigan . If we play to our full potential other than Wigan I think we are better than the rest of the front runners .

I wasn't calling for Mac to be sacked.
Just pointing out the fact that a ready-made caretaker is not on hand if he should leave (sacked / ill-health). Agreed they should look for the right man rather than rush in and get a yes man.
Perhaps badly expressed, but my main concern is the lack of a second opinion from someone who has clout in the organisation. As Backwooodsman said, an offensive coach for the threequarters may inject some alternative creativity.
I accept that all teams are very much level pegging at present due to injuries or loss of form and expect we will be there or thereabouts, around top 4 at the end of the normal season if Sinfield is not confirmed as a long term absentee.

We saw with McClennen and McDermott that hiring a guy to be an assistant with the view of taking over in 12 months isn't necessarily the smoothest planning. Whilst you might want the decision out of his hands he surely has to have a significant say on whose is on his coaching team, it's got to be someone he can gel with in terms of ideas and be on a similar wavelength too otherwise it'd just be a mess.

IF the club were appointing to be his successor, then he should have no say in the assistant. If it is purely to assist him with no long term plan, then yes I agree with what you said.

And I and most others agree that the attack needs to improve and look more threatening and creative.

It's worth remember though that for all the talk of our attack being poor and our defence currently being very poor (and lacking structure all year apparently) we have the joint fewest defeats in SL at the moment and whereas some of Saints' loses have been quite heavy are losing margins are very fine.....

Lost by 2 points
Home to Hudds
Away to Wakey

Lost by 4 points
Magic vs Wigan
Away at Saints

Lost by 18 points
Away to Wire

So 4 of those 5 defeats are single score defeats, the first three mentioned we actually matched the opposition for tries but fell sort due to goal kicking.

Only the Warrington game we've not had a chance to win approaching the final minutes, that's 1 match out of 22 played this year, think some underestimate how good a stat that is, and even when we've been beaten, teams only just manage it. So whilst we aren't getting everything right, we aren't getting things as wrong as some perhaps think.

Whilst correct that he wouldn't need to have a say in it I was never a fan of that idea when it was planned for McDermott to come in and be McClennen's assistant for a year in 2011 (and I imagine was to nobodies surprise really when McClennen left early) and it's not a route I liked to see try and be repeated....seems too messy.

Both Chris Plume and Jason Davidson have significant clout at the club.

I don't see the need for an offensive coach, we have plenty of offensive experience in Sinfield, McGuire & Burrow. I can't think of many coaches around with more experience than them.

To be honest I think we're just going through a period of poor form coupled with a lot of injuries.
I think we're still weak at prop beyond Peacock & Leuluai, and that the halves have only been good in patches this season. But when we get Sinfield & Burrow back I think that will help tremendously. Also Ablett & Hardaker are very important to our attack.

I agree with that. I also think coaches in general are unfairly sacked/criticised when teams perform poorly and unduly praised when teams perform well. There are exceptions to this obviously where a new coach can have an impact and where some coaches excel in certain circumstances.