I am reticent to start any negative posts after such a magnificent team effort, but I still cannot comprehend the inclusion of Kirke in what is considered the first 17 again by a respective Leeds coach.

Surely Lauititi was hard done by to be dropped in his favour yet again ...the lad has been deprived of two wembley appearances and possibly (could have been definitely) his 200th appearance.

Okay there's no room for sentiment in sport...BUT Ali's nemesis must have something I'm missing.

Even Amor would surely command a bench spot over our puzzling gentle giant ?

I think he had a fair game last night, but did think was hard on Ali to lose his spot

He smashed Solomona in the first half. I almost choked on my chocolate finger.

Kirke again played really well last night IMO. Gave Solomona a big'un from Wigan in the first half as well. If he keeps running and tackling with this new found aggression he is an excellent 4th prop.

Why break the habits of a lifetime?



Kirke did ok last night and put in some big tackles.

Did you see the interview given by Sinfield in the Sky pre match build up? He spoke very well and said some good positive things about coach BM. One point was he said that last year the players were not sure of their roles and this is one of the things that BM has put right this year but it has taken time.

So the team selections are based on players fullfilling the exact role that has been allocated so they all know where they are. Kirke has shown improvement this year and perhaps he is fullfilling the role of sub prop with orders to defend around the ruck and not miss tackles and give away penalties. In this he has been successful. It is a similar role that Bailey used to fulfill (with the exception of giving away penalties).

This year Bailey has been asked to improve his go forward which he also has done sucessfully. If Big Mac has improved the performances of two long term 'bench subs' then this indeed shows good coaching skills.

Maybe next year he can teach Kirke to improve his go forward game as well! And if he can get Webb to stop making forward passes he will become coach of the year!icon_razz.gifRAY:

TBH I quite like Ian Kirke.....He has his faults I guess, but he is one of those players who isnt going to make the headlines every week, but puts in the work for the team, makes us some yards and as someone mentioned above comes up with some massive hits from time to time like the one on Solomona last night. He is one of those unsung hero type of players, and every side needs a couple of them in the team.

Nah...I can be persuaded....but not here. Lauititi has always offered more....and continues to do so IM(H)O.

His baffling continued first 17 selection still continues to defy logic.

Yeah you're right - shocking selection last night - McDermott out

Yeah but with Ali in the 17 instead of Kirke Leeds would have won comfortably

Surely the choice is between Ali and Hauraki rather than Ali and Kirke? How Ali loses this contest in the eyes of McDermott I just don't understand.

Each to their own opinion I guess, much in the same way as Mac using Burrow consistently off the bench instead of starting him. As I said earlier today in another thread, Mac will do things his way, and given where he has taken us this last few weeks, who are we to question his judgement?

Agree, in fact many of McDermott's decisions in team I totally agree with, especially the benching of Burrow which should have been done years ago. On topic, Kirke is reliable in some respects and deserves his place on the bench out of the players in his position who are available. However Ali should be alongside him...!

I'm sure if you look back far enough we've had similar threads about...

Robbie
Ablett
JJB etc

I'd rather trust the coaches who do the job full time than the weekend 'armchair' coaches on here.

I'd have Kirke in the team for Huraki.

Kirke is more trusted than Ali. Trusted not to throw silly pases or drop balls and certainly not to miss tackles. He is not as imposing but I believe AL is an expensive luxury these days for Leeds.

got to go ali for me if you watch the last 2 games kirke comes on and plays about 10mins then you dont see him again why? and can anyone tell me when he last scored or made a try or broke a tackle also for me ali will get the team going when he comes on look at him in the grand final the other year

Spot on that IMO

As others have said it's not about Kirke or Ali it's Hauraki or Ali. Ali is clearly the more dangerous player of the two but Hauraki will put more work in for the side. After Fridays team performance I can't see why anyone would drop the "grafter" for a more explosive player.

Ali would offer so much more than Kirke as an interchange prop and so much more than Hauraki full stop.

I hope he gets his last hurrah but sadly don't think he will.

Ali > Kirke > Hauraki.

I think the phrase is "end of..."

Apart from the opinions of a string of people who are paid to make that decision, and have been pretty successful in doing that.

During their respective careers Kirke has been selected in two finals where Ali has not been selected. I wouldn't call the outcome of those games successful.

yes he did. I noted that.

But he spoilt it by apologising for it.

That about sums him up. Big unit, so we should see hits like this regular. But he doesn't have the mental aggression to see things through.

Look at Baileys hit on Morley (another ball spiller) after that did you see Bailey show concern? Nup, he looked over him and enjoyed the moment. You can see he gets off on it.

That rawness you cannot coach in or out of someone. That is a problem for me.

agree kirke should display more aggression. It appears he's happy fulfilling his cameo rather than improving.

I too would expect a special swansong from ali if he got the nod

I really don't understand why people were critical of that particular tactic. Right from the start, it looked like a smart move to me.

On Kirke, as someone has mentioned, he clearly plays the role that he is asked to. He's been a regular in the team under the last 3 coaches (including the great Tony Smith) and played in all 3 of the GF wins over Saints, arguments that have all been used in favour of Bailey in the past, yet somehow it's different for Kirke?

Most can see what Bailey brings to the table (if limited); most can't see what Kirke does that others could do ( [iat least[/i ) just as easily. His presence is incidental to those victories, as it is to the defeats at Wembley.

Tell me please what Kirke offers over Ali ?

Tell me what Kirke offers over Amor ?

I'm willing to be educated