well done gh for not signing atkins the guys a human turnstyle shentons not much better

Tbf to Atkins he isn't the 1st English back nor will he be the last to struggle in a tour match.
I thought we were better than i expected and at 18-0 we could of folded but kept going and although the Kiwis made plenty of errors in our half i thought we had a go.

Shenton has look a lot better with better players around him TBH when playing for England

On the flank both sets of defending centres and halves got dragged around.

Owned.

I feel against a a Kiwi side in very much 2nd gear.

Shenton ran a good line for the 2nd try, showed goo pace. But he's an average Super League centre playing at this level, what were people expecting.

The starting props didn't hold their own. Graham took it up, always with heart, but was kept well in check the Kiwis soaked him up with ease. Fielden crumbled, as predicted by me. wasn't a dominant force and in his first stint knocked on and gave away 2 penalties.

Ellis and Luke's better younger brother saw no quality ball so were kept out of the game.

The bench was also too light. If we weren't in the lead at half time - we were never going to be.

kevin brown was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of his depth. how far have we sunk when he is playing for england

He is another average-player-at-best playing for England.

He ballsed up his 'try' against Eastwood. He should have left the big lump alone, didn't need to touch him. He was beaten by the bounce, he was never going to get that ball. Should have waited.

At that level half chances have to be converted.

o'loughlin, who contributed zilch, should have made more of his chance when he found the ball in space down the middle. All day long it was the inside ball to the gnome that was more 'on' than the ball to Shenton. Shenton was never going to score. The percentages were with the gnome. Poor decision making under pressure.

The gnome, another fine example of average players in England shirts.

I thought the bounce had beaten Brown too. Without pushing against the not-inconsiderable frame of Eastwood to slow himself down, he would have got nowhere near the ball.

Locky was the top tackler from both sides with 40.

He should have been awarded the try for the remarkable way that he sighted the ball, shielded as it was by Eastwoods a[irs[/ie.

The stats are based on this game, not over the whole season.

HTH

Yeh and were discussing what Locky did in this game.

We were or we are?

He was, but so was Joel Tomkins as well.

That game the week before I thought Joel Tomkins looked out of his depth, but to look the same two weeks on the trot must be a bit of a worry. Is he not fit or something?

No, he's just a slightly above average player who does well in SL surrounded by an awesome team against average teams.

Did Ellis & Burgess play 80 minutes? I don't recall seeing them go off?

All we really got from that game is;

1) James Graham has the engine of a workhorse.
2) Ellis & Burgess can compete with NRL players.
3) Sam Tomkins shows signs of good stuff and with more international experience will be a pretty decent player.
4) Our backs are $hite.

Now did anybody not know any of that before a ball was kicked????

Opta have him at 38 along with Roby and Burgess. Opta also have Bronson Harrison with 39 tackles.

Apart from that your post was spot on.

It's a good job O'Loughlin did a lot of defending.

Otherwise his only notable contribution to the game would have been butchering England's one decent break of the first half by not spotting an unmarked Luke Robinson on his inside...

He definitely looked left, but chose to ignore him. Maybe he knew he wouldn't have the pace to finish it off, as shown in the second half

Yes I thought he saw Robinson (and the cover closing in) and thought better of it.

O'Loughlin also threw a nice long ball to the left straight after (I think) where England were unlucky not to receive another set of six ...... perhaps.

Personally think both are overrated, neither do much more (if at all) than Senior does.

Widdop is the new Steadman

At least Widdop has potential. As ever a few myths will be blown apart this series - most notably James Graham as the bestest best prop ever in the universe. Fnarr.

The sad thing is that that's exactly how he appears over here.
When we were being walloped in the 80s & 90s it was because we were still largely part-time.
Since 97 that is no longer the case, yet 13 years later we still seem to be miles behind in terms of conditioning & general strength.
Wigan players who seemed dominant physically over here due to McGuire's conditioning regime did not look like that against the Kiwis. Compare Joel Tompkins efforts over here with how he fared against them.
Heaven help us against the Aussies. My fear is they will dominate us physically & then overpower us later when we've run completely out of Juice.

I don't get the fuss over Graham at club level, never mind in the elevated atmosphere of international level.

He works hard, he puts lots of minutes in and is always willing to cart the ball up.

That isn't enough, you need to have something else about your game to make a success of it at the highest level and Graham doesn't.