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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Board Member | 22289 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2003 | 22 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Sep 2024 | Aug 2018 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
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Player( =#0000BFMins): Metres - Carries (MT/Carry) - Tackles - Misses (Efficiency %) - Errors - Penalties
Leeds( =#0000BF1040): 1507 - 213 (7.08 ) - 349 - 13 (96%) - 19 - 8
Jones-Bishop( =#0000BF80): 208 - 25 (8.32) - 3 - 0 (100%) - 3 – 1
Hardaker( =#0000BF80): 77 - 10 (7.70) - 5 - 0 (100%) - 1 – 0
Delaney( =#0000BF80): 100 - 16 (6.25) - 29 - 2 (94%) - 0 – 0
Ablett( =#0000BF80): 108 - 17 (6.35) - 19 - 0 (100%) - 1 – 0
Hall( =#0000BF80): 185 - 15 (12.33) - 1 - 0 (100%) - 2 – 0
Sinfield( =#0000BF80): 61 - 13 (4.69) - 18 - 0 (100%) - 2 – 0
McGuire( =#0000BF80): 58 - 14 (4.14) - 13 - 0 (100%) - 5 – 0
Bailey( =#0000BF55): 92 - 11 (8.36) - 31 - 2 (94%) - 1 – 0
Buderus( =#0000BF60): 58 - 11 (5.27) - 33 - 2 (94%) – 1 – 1
Peacock( =#0000BF54): 179 - 21 (8.52) - 34 - 1 (97%) - 2 – 4
Jones-Buchanan( =#0000BF62): 80 - 13 (6.15) - 39 - 0 (100%) - 0 – 1
Hauraki( =#0000BF71): 27 - 12 (4.75) - 39 - 1 (98%) - 0 – 0
Clarkson ( =#0000BF44): 37 - 5 (7.40) - 29 - 1 (97%) - 0 – 0
Burrow( =#0000BF49): 54 - 9 (6.00) - 7 - 0 (100%) - 1 – 0
Pitts( =#0000BF26): 44 - 6 (7.33) - 13 - 2 (87%) - 0 – 0
Lauitiiti( =#0000BF33): 77 - 11 (7.00) - 15 - 2 (88%) - 0 – 1
Kirke( =#0000BF26): 32 - 4 (8.00) - 21 - 0 (100%) - 0 – 0
Leeds Substitutions:
1 – 24 mins - Lauitiiti replaces Bailey
2 – 25 mins - Pitts replaces Clarkson
3 – 28 mins - Kirke replaces Peacock
4 – 31 mins - Burrow replaces Buderus
5 – 44 mins - Clarkson replaces Jones-Buchanan
6 - 49 mins - Peacock replaces Lauitiiti
7 – 49 mins - Bailey replaces Kirke
8 – 51 mins - Buderus replaces Pitts
9 – 54 mins – Jones-Buchanan replaces Hauraki
10 – 63 mins - Hauraki replaces Clarkson
11 – 72 mins - Lauitiiti replaces Jones-Buchanan
12 – 75 mins – Kirke replaces Peacock
Try Assists:
Kevin Sinfield (Ryan Hall Try)
Danny McGuire (Ben Jones-Bishop Try)
Ryan Hall (Danny McGuire Try)
(Both of Hall’s assists this season have been somewhat dubious given that another Leeds player has had an involvement after he has kicked inside, Buderus V Wigan (H) and Burrow in this game.)
___________
Leeds ‘loanees’ in SL:
Ambler: 35 - 6 (5.83) - 18 - 0 (100%) - 0 – 0
Amor: 80 - 15 (5.33) - 28 - 2 (93%) - 1 – 1
(I was hoping to include Ben Cross’ figures this week but unfortunately he’s still with Leeds according to the SL website.)
Previous Round/s:
[size=85Bradford (N) SL16-01 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=482879
Hull (A) SL16-02 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=483796
Harlequins (H) SL16-03 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=484679
Warrington (A) SL16-04 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=485544
Salford (H) SL16-05 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=486415
St Helens (H) SL16-06 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=487401
Wakefield (A) SL16-07 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=488219
Wigan (H) SL16-08 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=489220
Hull KR (A) SL16-09 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=490138
Huddersfield (H) SL16-10 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=490949
Bradford (A) SL16-11 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=491808
Crusaders (H) SL16-12 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=492398
Castleford (A) SL16-13 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=493126
Les Catalans (H) SL16-14 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=494548
Warrington (H) SL16-15 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=496054
St Helens (A) SL16-16 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=496757
Hull KR (H) SL16-17 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=497504
Crusaders RL (A) SL16-18 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=498423
Bradford (H) SL16-19 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=499135
Wigan (A) SL16-20 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=499903
Les Catalans (A) SL16-21 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=500643
[/size |
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Player( =#0000BFMins): Metres - Carries (MT/Carry) - Tackles - Misses (Efficiency %) - Errors - Penalties
Leeds( =#0000BF1040): 1507 - 213 (7.08 ) - 349 - 13 (96%) - 19 - 8
Jones-Bishop( =#0000BF80): 208 - 25 (8.32) - 3 - 0 (100%) - 3 – 1
Hardaker( =#0000BF80): 77 - 10 (7.70) - 5 - 0 (100%) - 1 – 0
Delaney( =#0000BF80): 100 - 16 (6.25) - 29 - 2 (94%) - 0 – 0
Ablett( =#0000BF80): 108 - 17 (6.35) - 19 - 0 (100%) - 1 – 0
Hall( =#0000BF80): 185 - 15 (12.33) - 1 - 0 (100%) - 2 – 0
Sinfield( =#0000BF80): 61 - 13 (4.69) - 18 - 0 (100%) - 2 – 0
McGuire( =#0000BF80): 58 - 14 (4.14) - 13 - 0 (100%) - 5 – 0
Bailey( =#0000BF55): 92 - 11 (8.36) - 31 - 2 (94%) - 1 – 0
Buderus( =#0000BF60): 58 - 11 (5.27) - 33 - 2 (94%) – 1 – 1
Peacock( =#0000BF54): 179 - 21 (8.52) - 34 - 1 (97%) - 2 – 4
Jones-Buchanan( =#0000BF62): 80 - 13 (6.15) - 39 - 0 (100%) - 0 – 1
Hauraki( =#0000BF71): 27 - 12 (4.75) - 39 - 1 (98%) - 0 – 0
Clarkson ( =#0000BF44): 37 - 5 (7.40) - 29 - 1 (97%) - 0 – 0
Burrow( =#0000BF49): 54 - 9 (6.00) - 7 - 0 (100%) - 1 – 0
Pitts( =#0000BF26): 44 - 6 (7.33) - 13 - 2 (87%) - 0 – 0
Lauitiiti( =#0000BF33): 77 - 11 (7.00) - 15 - 2 (88%) - 0 – 1
Kirke( =#0000BF26): 32 - 4 (8.00) - 21 - 0 (100%) - 0 – 0
Leeds Substitutions:
1 – 24 mins - Lauitiiti replaces Bailey
2 – 25 mins - Pitts replaces Clarkson
3 – 28 mins - Kirke replaces Peacock
4 – 31 mins - Burrow replaces Buderus
5 – 44 mins - Clarkson replaces Jones-Buchanan
6 - 49 mins - Peacock replaces Lauitiiti
7 – 49 mins - Bailey replaces Kirke
8 – 51 mins - Buderus replaces Pitts
9 – 54 mins – Jones-Buchanan replaces Hauraki
10 – 63 mins - Hauraki replaces Clarkson
11 – 72 mins - Lauitiiti replaces Jones-Buchanan
12 – 75 mins – Kirke replaces Peacock
Try Assists:
Kevin Sinfield (Ryan Hall Try)
Danny McGuire (Ben Jones-Bishop Try)
Ryan Hall (Danny McGuire Try)
(Both of Hall’s assists this season have been somewhat dubious given that another Leeds player has had an involvement after he has kicked inside, Buderus V Wigan (H) and Burrow in this game.)
___________
Leeds ‘loanees’ in SL:
Ambler: 35 - 6 (5.83) - 18 - 0 (100%) - 0 – 0
Amor: 80 - 15 (5.33) - 28 - 2 (93%) - 1 – 1
(I was hoping to include Ben Cross’ figures this week but unfortunately he’s still with Leeds according to the SL website.)
Previous Round/s:
[size=85Bradford (N) SL16-01 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=482879
Hull (A) SL16-02 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=483796
Harlequins (H) SL16-03 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=484679
Warrington (A) SL16-04 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=485544
Salford (H) SL16-05 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=486415
St Helens (H) SL16-06 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=487401
Wakefield (A) SL16-07 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=488219
Wigan (H) SL16-08 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=489220
Hull KR (A) SL16-09 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=490138
Huddersfield (H) SL16-10 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=490949
Bradford (A) SL16-11 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=491808
Crusaders (H) SL16-12 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=492398
Castleford (A) SL16-13 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=493126
Les Catalans (H) SL16-14 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=494548
Warrington (H) SL16-15 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=496054
St Helens (A) SL16-16 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=496757
Hull KR (H) SL16-17 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=497504
Crusaders RL (A) SL16-18 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=498423
Bradford (H) SL16-19 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=499135
Wigan (A) SL16-20 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=499903
Les Catalans (A) SL16-21 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=500643
[/size | |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Board Member | 22289 | No
Team
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| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2003 | 22 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Sep 2024 | Aug 2018 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
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Player(=#0000BFMins): Metres - Carries (MT/Carry) - Tackles - Misses (Efficiency %) - Errors - Penalties
Hull FC(=#0000BF1040): 1082 - 189 (5.72) - 343 – 19* (95%*) - 22 - 8
Phelps(=#0000BF80): 93 - 10 (9.30) - 11 - 2 (85%) - 2 – 0
Whiting(=#0000BF80): 71 - 12 (5.92) - 7 - 2 (78%) - 3 – 0
Turner(=#0000BF80): 73 - 13 (5.62) - 34 - 0 (100%) - 1 – 1
Yeaman(=#0000BF80): 50 - 10 (5.00) - 11 - 0 (100%) - 1 – 0
Briscoe(=#0000BF80): 85 - 14 (6.07) - 3 - 0 (100%) - 1 – 0
Horne(=#0000BF80): 44 - 12 (3.67) - 14 - 1 (93%) - 3 – 0
Obst(=#0000BF80): 27 - 8 (3.38 ) - 23 - ?** (??%) - 2 – 0
O’Meley(=#0000BF45): 102 – 15 (6.80) - 20 - 3 (87%) - 2 – 0
Houghton(=#0000BF64): 77 - 15 (5.13) - 41 - 1 (98%) - 0 – 2
Fitzgibbon(=#0000BF16): 30 - 5 (6.00) - 14 - 2 (88%) - 1 – 1
Manu(=#0000BF56): 60 - 10 (6.00) - 15 - 0 (100%) - 0 – 0
Tickle(=#0000BF80): 73 - 14 (5.21) - 35 - 3 (92%) - 1 – 1
Westerman(=#0000BF80): 43 - 10 (4.30) - 35 - 3 (92%) - 2 – 2
Washbrook(=#0000BF41): 20 - 6 (3.33) - 27 - 0 (100%) - 0 – 0
Lauaki(=#0000BF33): 74 - 12 (6.17) - 18 - 0 (100%) - 0 – 1
Radford(=#0000BF29): 75 - 13 (5.77) - 16 - 2 (89%) - 1 – 0
Moa(=#0000BF36): 85 - 10 (8.50) - 19 - 0 (100%) - 2 – 0
Hull FC Substitutions:
1 - 16 mins - Moa replaces Fitzgibbon
2 - 16 mins - Radford replaces O’Meley
3 - 32 mins - Lauaki replaces Manu
4 - 34 mins - Washbrook replaces Moa
5 – 34 mins - O’Meley replaces Radford
6 - 50 mins - Moa replaces Lauaki
7 - 51 mins - Radford replaces O’Meley
8 - 56 mins - Manu replaces Houghton
9 - 62 mins –Lauaki replaces Radford
10 – 68 mins - O’Meley replaces Moa
11 - 72 mins - Houghton replaces Washbrook
12 - 77 mins - Washbrook replaces Lauaki
* Excluding Sam Obst
**As the SL website still has Obst at Wakefield it’s impossible to make the call on his and the team’s combined missed tackle stat.
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Board Member | 22289 | No
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| Mar 2003 | 22 years | |
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| Sep 2024 | Aug 2018 | LINK |
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............... =#0000BFLeeds ..... =#FF0000Hull FC
Metres Made .......... =#0000BF1507 ..... =#FF00001082
Carries .......... =#0000BF213 ..... =#FF0000189
Tackles .......... =#0000BF349 ..... =#FF0000343
Offloads .......... =#0000BF8 ..... =#FF0000 9
Attacking Kicks .......... =#0000BF15 ..... =#FF00006
Runs from Dummy Half .......... =#0000BF32 ..... =#FF000030
Tackle Busts .......... =#0000BF20 ..... =#FF000013
Marker Tackles .......... =#0000BF55 ..... =#FF000037
Clean Breaks .......... =#0000BF6 ..... =#FF00000
40/20 .......... =#0000BF0 ..... =#FF00000
Kicks In General Play .......... =#0000BF21 ..... =#FF000016
Missed Tackles .......... =#0000BF13 ..... =#FF000019
Errors Made .......... =#0000BF19 ..... =#FF000022
Penalties Conceded .......... =#0000BF8 ..... =#FF00008
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 7408 | No
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| May 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
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Lots of errors and penalties from Peacock, McGuire and Jones-Bishop. Still not up to speed after coming back from injury?
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| International Chairman | 32302 | No
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| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Nov 2018 | Oct 2016 | LINK |
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4 hit ups from the Cowardly lion again. Oh dear. Look at Hall's metres. He made virtually all of those himself. Amazing player.
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Board Member | 17230 | No
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| Oct 2002 | 22 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Dec 2024 | Nov 2020 | LINK |
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| Quote ="G1"Look at Hall's metres. He made virtually all of those himself. Amazing player.'"
Just to put some realism to this. Put away in complete space and able to run in that space, would contribute at least 90-100 of those metres.
That aside, Halls work rate put players like Kirke to shame. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 32302 | No
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| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Nov 2018 | Oct 2016 | LINK |
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| Quote ="Gotcha"Just to put some realism to this. Put away in complete space and able to run in that space, would contribute at least 90-100 of those metres.
That aside, Halls work rate put players like Kirke to shame.'"
And when was he put away in "complete space"?
I wonder what Hall would achieve with a centre like yeaman inside him? More than 85 metres I suspect. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Board Member | 22289 | No
Team
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| Mar 2003 | 22 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Sep 2024 | Aug 2018 | LINK |
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| Quote ="G1"I wonder what Hall would achieve with a centre like yeaman inside him? More than 85 metres I suspect.'"
Briscoe might also have achieved more metres if he wasn't confronted with a terrier like Buderus leading the opposition kick-chase team. Ironically the best kick-chase of the night will likely as not feature in the missed tackle stat of the Leeds hooker despite it potentially saving several metres from the reply. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Board Member | 17230 | No
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| Oct 2002 | 22 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Dec 2024 | Nov 2020 | LINK |
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| Quote ="G1"I wonder what Hall would achieve with a centre like yeaman inside him? More than 85 metres I suspect.'"
Agreed. But then again you can't compare to Hull from Friday. Look at the left hand side of Hull, and how few carries there is compared to the other side, and more importantly our centres. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Coach | 15864 | No
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| Oct 2004 | 20 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Jul 2024 | Oct 2023 | LINK |
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| Quote ="G1"4 hit ups from the Cowardly lion again. Oh dear. Look at Hall's metres. He made virtually all of those himself. Amazing player.'"
Whereas I noted his 4 carries as poor, then saw 26 minutes and thought it improved it slightly, but was impressed by 21 tackles in that period, with 0 misses.
Taking into account a set of six generally lasts 60 seconds, and alternates, that averages out at close to 2 tackles a set whilst he was on the pitch. Not the stats of a coward, just some who knows where his strengths lie, as do (more importantly) the succession of successful coaches (plus McDermott) who have continued to utilise him in this way |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 32302 | No
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| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Nov 2018 | Oct 2016 | LINK |
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I've seen plenty of players willing to get stuck into opponents on defensive duties but too scared to take their lumps and take the ball up. It's very cowardly lion. Even with his 21 tackles he still had the lowest overall involvement of the 4 lads asked to play prop, as he always does,
It's a cyclical argument. In a team struggling to go forward if Shirke was willing to take us forward I am sure he would find himself on the pitch longer. Perhaps his game time is so limited because he's shown, week after week after week that he doesn't have the bottle to take the ball forward.
I like American Football. Perhaps there is a future for the cowardly lion to be purely a defensive player who we can sub off when is in possession?
I'm sorry, but 4 carries with such alarming regularity is completely indefensible of he spends any longer than 4 minutes on the pitch, which in my view, would be 4 minutes too long.
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 1176 | No
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| Nov 2006 | 18 years | |
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| Aug 2015 | Aug 2015 | LINK |
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Another top defensive effort from JJB.
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 3224 | No
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| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Aug 2005 | 19 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Oct 2018 | May 2016 | LINK |
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When it comes to a bit of go forward, it is very evident that JP is literally carrying that pack on his own.
Practically double the yardage of TMFMISL. I hope Garry has someone very good in mind when JP does eventually call it a day.....
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 803 | No
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| Aug 2005 | 19 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Dec 2013 | Dec 2013 | LINK |
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not a bad defensive effort from hauraki
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 1820 | No
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| Mar 2007 | 18 years | |
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| Jun 2024 | Jun 2024 | LINK |
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Seems to me that Leeds coaching team don't read too much into OPTA stats nor heed Wayne Bennetts advice when selecting the squad each week.
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Board Member | 28186 | No
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| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Apr 2003 | 22 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Aug 2016 | Aug 2016 | LINK |
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| Quote ="G1"I've seen plenty of players willing to get stuck into opponents on defensive duties but too scared to take their lumps and take the ball up. It's very cowardly lion. Even with his 21 tackles he still had the lowest overall involvement of the 4 lads asked to play prop, as he always does'"
And yet, in terms of involvement per minute on the pitch...
Bailey - 42 in 55 minutes
Peacock - 55 in 54 minutes
Lauitiiti - 26 in 33 minutes
Kirke - 25 in 26 minutes.
A very close second only to JP in terms of the four front rowers, and second overall in terms of involvement per minute amongst the Leeds forwards. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 3101 | No
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| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Feb 2008 | 17 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Aug 2018 | Jul 2017 | LINK |
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Nobody that plays rugby league, especially as a forward, is a coward.
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 5813 | No
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| Apr 2010 | 15 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Apr 2022 | Mar 2022 | LINK |
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Ablett again good effort.
I would agree with G1 though hall was great and didn't have alotof easy meters, and generally made his own yards rather than being put in lots of free space
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| International Chairman | 5442 | No
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| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Jun 2024 | May 2024 | LINK |
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clearly four drives is what the coach wants, it may also be influenced by his place in the set of six - if he is told to drive it in for tackle 5 then quite often this year we have already lost the ball by then!
we dont actually have any forwards who regularly make yards, all of them are poor not jusr Mr Kirke
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 9565 | No
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| May 2002 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Dec 2019 | Dec 2019 | LINK |
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It's not just about being told to do something by the coach though is it? Its also about recognising what's required in a set of 6, and most importantly of all for a prop (when on the field) making yourself available to take a drive. Especially in defensive sets near the line. I understand Kirke may not be a 'go to' prop near the opposition line, but when you're trying to make the hard yards going upfield from your own 25, its about getting yourself back and in position to help out. Tactics then are irrelevant - effort is what counts.
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Board Member | 7631 | No
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| Jun 2003 | 22 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Mar 2018 | Jul 2016 | LINK |
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| Quote ="leicester_rhino"Whereas I noted his 4 carries as poor, then saw 26 minutes and thought it improved it slightly, but was impressed by 21 tackles in that period, with 0 misses.
Taking into account a set of six generally lasts 60 seconds, and alternates, that averages out at close to 2 tackles a set whilst he was on the pitch. Not the stats of a coward, just some who knows where his strengths lie, as do (more importantly) the succession of successful coaches (plus McDermott) who have continued to utilise him in this way'"
So by your your stats Kirke took 1 drive every 3.25 sets while he was on, considering he was a replacement and should come on to get stuck in and also normally does more minutes for those 4 drives, defensive master or not that's just madness, it's akin to playing with a forward down in attack and our forwards haven't been tearing it up in attack recently. |
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| Quote ="Hopie"if he is told to drive it in for tackle 5 then quite often this year we have already lost the ball by then!
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I love this. |
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| Quote ="Tony Soprano"So by your your stats Kirke took 1 drive every 3.25 sets while he was on, considering he was a replacement and should come on to get stuck in and also normally does more minutes for those 4 drives, defensive master or not that's just madness, it's akin to playing with a forward down in attack and our forwards haven't been tearing it up in attack recently.'"
His low work rate in attack is not in dispute. What I'm trying to do is to look beyond some statistics and consider why a player has been selected by multiple coaches and formed part of a team that has won a series of Grand Finals.
What is clear is that he is a valued member of the squad by the people who know what it takes to run a sucessful team. He is well below par with the ball, but I believe he is above par for defence. He may not necessarily hurt people like Kylie, but what he does do is make the tackle nearly every time. I believe that his role in the team is to come on in the middle of each half, and tighten up the defence, whilst other people who are more attack focussed carry the ball. Defence is much more energy sapping than attack, and also errors in defence can hurt a lot more than a lack of meters with the ball. As is pointed out quite often, there are two sides to this game, and the team that concedes fewest points wins.
If he could be more effective in atatck and remain as effective in defence he'd be a different quality of player (more like JP). He's not, he has his strengths and he is playing to them, and save his breath for the job he's in the side to do. |
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| Quote ="leicester_rhino" What I'm trying to do is to look beyond some statistics and consider why a player has been selected by multiple coaches and formed part of a team that has won a series of Grand Finals.
to do.'"
because at one time he was a good player to have around the squad.
those days are well behind him. he's stealing a living |
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| Quote ="leicester_rhino"His low work rate in attack is not in dispute. What I'm trying to do is to look beyond some statistics and consider why a player has been selected by multiple coaches and formed part of a team that has won a series of Grand Finals.
What is clear is that he is a valued member of the squad by the people who know what it takes to run a sucessful team. He is well below par with the ball, but I believe he is above par for defence. He may not necessarily hurt people like Kylie, but what he does do is make the tackle nearly every time. I believe that his role in the team is to come on in the middle of each half, and tighten up the defence, whilst other people who are more attack focussed carry the ball. Defence is much more energy sapping than attack, and also errors in defence can hurt a lot more than a lack of meters with the ball. As is pointed out quite often, there are two sides to this game, and the team that concedes fewest points wins.
If he could be more effective in atatck and remain as effective in defence he'd be a different quality of player (more like JP). He's not, he has his strengths and he is playing to them, and save his breath for the job he's in the side to do.'"
Sorry but I still don't buy it, Peacock (who is in a different league to Kirke granted) has just come back from major knee surgery is still doing more tackles per minute with the other forwards not being far behind, Maybe a few years ago when Kylie, Peacock, Ellis etc were making very good yards then we could afford to carry a "defensive forward" but things have changed a lot since then.
I do think Kirke is a very good defender but his tackles are not effective enough or come in a ridiculous quantity to be able to justify his place in a struggling team imo.
If McD is saying to Kirke "you just tackle and let the other guys do the go forward" then he needs serious help because at present we have no go forward, this is not 2009. |
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