|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 557 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2010 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2011 | Mar 2011 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="deeHell"Here speaks one of Yorkshire's great legal minds!
'"
No, just someone who takes time to find out about the licence process. Do you have any RL comments?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 6308 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jan 2007 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Trinity Till Death"I don't see the need to gloat from some Trinity fans. Essentially we have both got what we wanted all along, Castleford will have a stadium at GH and Wakefield will have one at NM. Surely that's the best result for all, shouldn't we all be happy?
I couldn't care less whether Wakefield or Castleford's is built first so long as they both are built in the near future. Good luck, and i looked forward to a strong derby at both GH and NM.'"
That's my view of it all as well. And it's still too early to pop the cork, although we are further along than ever before.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 2222 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2005 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Ceejames"No, just someone who takes time to find out about the licence process. Do you have any RL comments?'"
Read my posting history I think you'll find a few fair few RL related comments! HTH
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 6308 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jan 2007 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Ceejames"No, just someone who takes time to find out about the licence process. Do you have any RL comments?'"
No contract is watertight until a judge says it is, and that would be the pitfall. If someone argued that the whole franchise process was flawed because the RFL had fettered its discretion (ie, already made its mind up), then a legal challenge could probably be brought, and one of the arguments would be that the exclusion clause (ie, that you are not allowed to challenge the final decision) was unfair. The announcement that a championship club is definitely coming up is the sort of thing that would support the argument that the whole process was flawed, as it suggests that one applicant will be viewed more favourably regardless of whether or not it is one of the best 14 applications (and we all know its Widnes - didn't they post something on their site recently that suggested that they were on their way up, but then took it down immediately - had they had the "not yet" warning?).
It doesn't matter whether or not the contracts and franchise process turn out to be watertight once it has been through the judicial mill. It is the wreckage caused by the judicial process that would be the problem, as a judge could be asked to halt the whole process until it is finally determined. And when you have a do-or-die process like this, a club will one day challenge it if the club's survival depends on it.
I know it's a different determining body, but you only have to remember how Wigan were able to challenge the points deduction for salary cap breaches even though they had agreed to it.
It matters not whether someone agrees to something. A court will not force anyone to be bound by an agreement or process that is fundamentally unfair (I am not saying it is unfair or not, but just saying that if a court thought it was unfair, the agreement is irrelevant).
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 557 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2010 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2011 | Mar 2011 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="chissitt"She speaks very elloquently, especially if she's supped a full bottle of home brew
'"
When you are sober you can spell 'eloquently' correctly.
A knockback on Friday and wakey were finished. If it goes to a Pi or a legal challenge wakey are finished. If wakey get PP then they need to be clearly ahead of Cas and Salford or they will be finished based on their poor finances and poor record re using overseas players.
The 3 year licences were intended to provide some stability. This has been far rom true.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 557 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2010 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2011 | Mar 2011 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="deeHell"Read my posting history I think you'll find a few fair few RL related comments! HTH
'"
Any RL comment?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 645 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jul 2010 | 15 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2010 | Nov 2010 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Slugger McBatt"
I know it's a different determining body, but you only have to remember how Wigan were able to challenge the points deduction for salary cap breaches even though they had agreed to it.
To be fair slugger, Wigan are allowed to and have been allowed to cheat without any real recourse for as long as i can remember, so quoting them is a little flimsy, but i agree with the rest of your argument
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 557 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2010 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2011 | Mar 2011 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Slugger McBatt"No contract is watertight until a judge says it is, and that would be the pitfall. If someone argued that the whole franchise process was flawed because the RFL had fettered its discretion (ie, already made its mind up), then a legal challenge could probably be brought, and one of the arguments would be that the exclusion clause (ie, that you are not allowed to challenge the final decision) was unfair.
It doesn't matter whether or not the contracts and franchise process turn out to be watertight once it has been through the judicial mill. It is the wreckage caused by the judicial process that would be the problem, as a judge could be asked to halt the whole process until it is finally determined. And when you have a do-or-die process like this, a club will one day challenge it if the club's survival depends on it.
I know it's a different determining body, but you only have to remember how Wigan were able to challenge the points deduction for salary cap breaches even though they had agreed to it.
It matters not whether someone agrees to something. A court will not force anyone to be bound by an agreement or process that is fundamentally unfair (I am not saying it is unfair or not, but just saying that if a court thought it was unfair, the agreement is irrelevant).'"
I agree , the Wigan situation was very different.
Clearly if the RFL break their own 'rules' there is scope for a challenge. They wont and the relegated club will go down. Those fans - and I am not saying you are one of them - clinging to the notion that after the whole process they will get out of jail with a legal challenge are clutching at straws.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 6308 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jan 2007 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Ceejames"I agree , the Wigan situation was very different.
Clearly if the RFL break their own 'rules' there is scope for a challenge. They wont and the relegated club will go down. Those fans - and I am not saying you are one of them - clinging to the notion that after the whole process they will get out of jail with a legal challenge are clutching at straws.'"
I'm not saying that any legal challenge would be successful, and I would not want Wakey to mount one, as it would not be for the good of the game (and would earn very few brownie points for the application in three years time). I was just saying that you cannot rule out a legal challenge, because you cannot stop a legal challenge, as you could even challenge the agreement not to challenge it. I have been involved in the law long enough (i've been a solicitor for fifteen years, but in a different field to this) to know that having a very weak legal argument doesn't stop you from making the argument, and there is nothing worse than the hassle of fighting a legal argument from the other side that you know is complete rubbish, because you still have the hassle of fighting it.
So no, I'm not wanting Wakey to be saved by a legal challenge. I'm just saying that some club may one day try it, and watertight or not, the hassle of fighting it could be damaging for the RFL.
And with hindsight, I realise that the Wigan example was poor. According to their fans' chants, "they are rugby league". God love 'em!
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 11589 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2007 | 17 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Ceejames"When you are[u sober [/uyou can spell [uThis has been far rom true.[/u'"
ish that rite
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 1494 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jan 2009 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2011 | Feb 2011 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Souths essentially went through something very similar to this.
They took the NRL to the high court on grounds of exclusion of trade. And eventually won.
Took 3 years for them to be reinstated but they got back.
If all 3 clubs under threat get stadiums built I think they will offer a similar promise to the team they demote as the one they offered (unofficially) to Widnes after the last round of applications; "Hold steady for 3 years and we'll welcome you back with open arms!"
But I don't think they will change their minds of the number of clubs or they procedure for judging applications.
If I were in charge I'd move straight back to P&R in a heart beat!
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 36144 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2004 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Slugger McBatt"No contract is watertight until a judge says it is, and that would be the pitfall. If someone argued that the whole franchise process was flawed because the RFL had fettered its discretion (ie, already made its mind up), then a legal challenge could probably be brought, and one of the arguments would be that the exclusion clause (ie, that you are not allowed to challenge the final decision) was unfair. The announcement that a championship club is definitely coming up is the sort of thing that would support the argument that the whole process was flawed, as it suggests that one applicant will be viewed more favourably regardless of whether or not it is one of the best 14 applications (and we all know its Widnes - didn't they post something on their site recently that suggested that they were on their way up, but then took it down immediately - had they had the "not yet" warning?).
It doesn't matter whether or not the contracts and franchise process turn out to be watertight once it has been through the judicial mill. It is the wreckage caused by the judicial process that would be the problem, as a judge could be asked to halt the whole process until it is finally determined. And when you have a do-or-die process like this, a club will one day challenge it if the club's survival depends on it.
I know it's a different determining body, but you only have to remember how Wigan were able to challenge the points deduction for salary cap breaches even though they had agreed to it.
It matters not whether someone agrees to something. A court will not force anyone to be bound by an agreement or process that is fundamentally unfair (I am not saying it is unfair or not, but just saying that if a court thought it was unfair, the agreement is irrelevant).'"
Correct. I really can't understand why some seemingly intelligent posters are claiming that the franchise has any kind of real authority, it does not, it has NONE.
Sure you can't challenge the decision through RFL channels - big deal. The British legal system is the ONLY organisation in the land able to enforce the law and the only body able to create laws is Parliament. No way do the rules of some small sport riddled with self interest overrule the LAW.
Any Lawyer who can find any part of the franchise that goes against current trade practice and employment law would have a field day. It matters not a jot as to what the clubs and the RFL agreed or signed - if it's an illegal practice it can be challenged and over ruled with almost 100% certainty at a huge cost to the game and the RFL know this.
Even the rule about clubs going into receivership and thus automatically being demoted is utterly unenforceable in a court. The only reason clubs in football have not challenged the FA is because those clubs simply couldn't afford a legal challenge. It would IMO be a completely different story if a club could mount a challenge. The SL would lose the case where Trinity, Salford or Cas are concerned IMO.
If a club is solvent, trading and has employees and even if it fails the sports own criteria then by UK and European law it is still totally illegal to remove there ability to trade against there will - end of. If the RFL/SL tried to enforce the demotion of any existing club on any grounds other than those which broke UK law and were taken to court they would be crucified and the franchise agreement would be rendered worthless - which indeed it is unless all the clubs CHOOSE to go along with it - which they won't when push comes to shove. Even IMO an individual employee could successfully challenge any ruling regarding demotion so thin is the franchise systems real power.
Anyone who thinks that some piddling little body like the RFL/SL have any real authority over the future of LTD Companies with shareholders employing many people which all SL clubs are is living in cloud cuckoo land.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 888 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2008 | 17 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jul 2021 | Mar 2019 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| I think you will all find the RFL are not removing anyone's ability to trade, They will be only be moving them from SL into The Championship, this does not stop them from trading.
And while I don't agree with 1 of the 3 getting kicked it will be there own fault, we have all ed about for far too long with empty promises. The grounds should be up we have all had long enough .
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 557 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2010 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2011 | Mar 2011 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Double post.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 557 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2010 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2011 | Mar 2011 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| The RFL rules for a licence are clear and approved by all the clubs. The licence criteria are approved by all. If the RFl comply by their own rules then a club protesting about a decision after it has been made will fail. The team slected to go down wil be relegated.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 557 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2010 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2011 | Mar 2011 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="chissitt"ish that rite
'"
Any rugby comment?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 557 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2010 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2011 | Mar 2011 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="vastman"
Anyone who thinks that some piddling little body like the RFL/SL have any real authority over the future of LTD Companies with shareholders employing many people which all SL clubs are is living in cloud cuckoo land.'"
Anyone who thinks that one piddling RL club can force the RFL and 13 other RL LTD companies to play against them week in and week out is living in cloud cuckoo land.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 5035 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2009 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Aug 2021 | Oct 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Ceejames"Anyone who thinks that one piddling RL club can force the RFL and 13 other RL LTD companies to play against them week in and week out is living in cloud cuckoo land.'"
It takes 1 competent lawyer and the way the RFL try running the game is stopped because it's illegal as it is (so are the salary cap and quota technically, but that's an entirely different matter).
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 14302 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2005 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Sep 2018 | Sep 2015 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="vastman"Correct. I really can't understand why some seemingly intelligent posters are claiming that the franchise has any kind of real authority, it does not, it has NONE.
Sure you can't challenge the decision through RFL channels - big deal. The British legal system is the ONLY organisation in the land able to enforce the law and the only body able to create laws is Parliament. No way do the rules of some small sport riddled with self interest overrule the LAW.
Any Lawyer who can find any part of the franchise that goes against current trade practice and employment law would have a field day. It matters not a jot as to what the clubs and the RFL agreed or signed - if it's an illegal practice it can be challenged and over ruled with almost 100% certainty at a huge cost to the game and the RFL know this.
Even the rule about clubs going into receivership and thus automatically being demoted is utterly unenforceable in a court. The only reason clubs in football have not challenged the FA is because those clubs simply couldn't afford a legal challenge. It would IMO be a completely different story if a club could mount a challenge. The SL would lose the case where Trinity, Salford or Cas are concerned IMO.
If a club is solvent, trading and has employees and even if it fails the sports own criteria then by UK and European law it is still totally illegal to remove there ability to trade against there will - end of. If the RFL/SL tried to enforce the demotion of any existing club on any grounds other than those which broke UK law and were taken to court they would be crucified and the franchise agreement would be rendered worthless - which indeed it is unless all the clubs CHOOSE to go along with it - which they won't when push comes to shove. Even IMO an individual employee could successfully challenge any ruling regarding demotion so thin is the franchise systems real power.
Anyone who thinks that some piddling little body like the RFL/SL have any real authority over the future of LTD Companies with shareholders employing many people which all SL clubs are is living in cloud cuckoo land.'" This sounds like good plan although it has 1 small hitch any club taking the RFL to court cannot play in any if its comp's.
IF you take the RFL to court then you as a club need to find another sport to play.
This was one of the main reasons Wigan didnt kick up more of a stink the other year when they got a major slapping over the salary cap.
THe RFL have the clubs more over a barrel then you seem to think.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 5035 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2009 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Aug 2021 | Oct 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Roverswall"This sounds like good plan although it has 1 small hitch any club taking the RFL to court cannot play in any if its comp's.
IF you take the RFL to court then you as a club need to find another sport to play.
This was one of the main reasons Wigan didnt kick up more of a stink the other year when they got a major slapping over the salary cap.
THe RFL have the clubs more over a barrel then you seem to think.'"
Wigan didn't kick up a stink because they were guilty the RFL and Wigan shut up and did a deal on the sly to stop Cas kicking up a fuss and suing both the RFL & Wigan for everything they had on the other hand.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 14302 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2005 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Sep 2018 | Sep 2015 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Gaslight"Wigan didn't kick up a stink because they were guilty
the RFL and Wigan shut up and did a deal on the sly to stop Cas kicking up a fuss and suing both the RFL & Wigan for everything they had on the other hand.'" You could take the RFL to court and yes you would probably win..............BUT lets say it takes 12/18 months to win that would 1/2 season where you cannot play RL AT ALL.
Now have a little think about it.
How much of the club would be left to play in RL after you stop trading for 1 season if not 2.
Oh and BTW Wigan would have correctly argued that the Salary Cap is illegal by European Law just as you would be argueing that the franchises are illegal.
Its a gamble by the RFL that no club has the balls to do it.
For reasons I have mentioned IMHO its a gamble they are always going to win.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 1253 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2009 | 15 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jul 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Ceejames"No, just someone who takes time to find out about the licence process. Do you have any RL comments?'"
is there a link you can put on here to this legal document you appear to have seen?. if so i can get it looked at legally
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 11589 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2007 | 17 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Ceejames"The RFL rules for a licence are clear and approved by all the clubs. The licence criteria are approved by all. If the RFl comply by their own rules then a club protesting about a decision after it has been made will fail. [uThe team slected to go down wil be relegated.[/u'"
I hope we are not slected and wil not go down.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 27039 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2005 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Sep 2017 | Sep 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="chissitt"I hope we are not slected and wil not go down.'"
You're spellings shocking
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 14302 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2005 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Sep 2018 | Sep 2015 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="BIGAL1"You're spellings shocking
'" Shouldn't that say 'You're Spelling is shocking'
|
|
|
|
|