Then you would also be wrong. The end date has nothing to do with Newmarket (as much as you seem to think it always is).

Indeed.

And the fact that instead of writing Cas (bar the one time) he always changes it to 'C@s'; I know it technically isn't derogatory but it's almost as bad as the Fev fans who write 'C*s'. Bitter lot down t'road.

Why would Opus submit an application for another site having already spent money on WR in terms of various plans and surveys etc?

RW wouldn't be saying anything regarding this. All the press releases come from Opus and there ARE, despite what people think, other supermarkets also wanting to pursue WR. This alone is just one of the many reasons why Tesco will not give up the site as much as I_A and other Wakey fans 'claim' to think. I_A does work in the industry but his comments seem very much on conjecture and rumour. He has no battle to grind with Cas but seems only to post negative information on here and doesn't seem, from a Cas perspective at least, wholly supportive of any plans for Cas as much as he says differently. That is not necessarily my view but that is why some people take offence to him.

And your final comments re: WR and the stadium is correct; there is absolutely no way that GH will not be built - we have full PP and we just need to sell our major asset to ensure that is the case. I have absolutely no worries, however, that Opus (and Tesco) will not see this to the very end.

So pretty much none of us know anything?

I'm all for people posting opinions or rumours they've heard or even a snippet that they actually know but lets not get too heated over what is happening at WR yet. I'm sure Tesco don't even know yet so even a member of the SMT is unlikely to be able to update us.
Give the likes of RW and his team time to try and either convince Tesco or find someone else. It might turn out for the better.
As someone posted above, Cas are in a pretty good position that they own the ground. Better than many I have to say.
Hope good news comes soon.

The only people who will know are Opus and the higher-ups in Tesco, whilst I'm sure Cas will be kept in the loop when there is news to tell (not forgetting and Legal advisors).

Anyone else not involved in the process will have very limited knowledge and can only go off rumour, hear-say or conjecture as I stated. I'm by no means saying that I am right but I very much doubt that Tesco have pulled out. I actually searched through Tesco's website last night looking for the comments of what I_A was referring to them over-spending. However, at no stage through their Chief Exec's, Chairman's or Financial performance from last season (and notes with the accounts) was this mentioned. If I_A could point me to this, it would be appreciated.

Fully sorry but its common knowledge that Tesco have had to ring-fence money because of a possible Eurozone collapse. www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... ak-up.html

Fully sorry but its common knowledge that Tesco have had to ring-fence money because of a possible Eurozone collapse. www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... ak-up.html

From my understanding Fully Opus are working on a number of sites, site prospecting if you will. They will have to undertake the same studies (if none have been previously done) at all sites. The reason studies into Wheldon Road were done was due to the fact that there were no contemporary studies to cite in any future planning application.

As I said, my understanding is that a number of sites were presented to Tesco by Opus and an additional developer. In the selection process Wheldon Road has been shelved due to flooding, the same information would impact on the Nestle site in exactly the same way. Further investment in flooding & preventative measures within any build would also be required. Hence putting the client off, in this case. These issues are far from being insurmountable but again don't fit with the required timescale from your point of view.

As far as Junction 32 goes, that again isn't set in stone. Castleford will only have until 2014 to make a move or renew the permission. Waystones may choose to go in a different direction, despite having invested in the stadium project how long can they keep a plot waiting? Even if there are signed deals they won't be indefinite.

While I've never believed the projects at Junction 30 and 32 were intrinsically linked I do believe that the first one to get built will be the only one to get built. It's been said to death but contemplate the possibility of sharing.

Quote ="binks"Fully sorry but its common knowledge that Tesco have had to ring-fence money because of a possible Eurozone collapse. www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... ak-up.html'" Maybe so but like any other business they're going to have move their money around to different areas. However, I_A's point was that they've 'overspent' on building stores/acquiring sites. I have seen no evidence of this. Equally, they're hardly going to curb building new stores as the revenue from them will far outweigh the costs.

Quote ="binks"Fully sorry but its common knowledge that Tesco have had to ring-fence money because of a possible Eurozone collapse. www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... ak-up.html'" Maybe so but like any other business they're going to have move their money around to different areas. However, I_A's point was that they've 'overspent' on building stores/acquiring sites. I have seen no evidence of this. Equally, they're hardly going to curb building new stores as the revenue from them will far outweigh the costs.

If it helps, that ties in with information I posted a couple of weeks ago; the flooding data at WR means that only a store on stilts is viable and a store on stilts costs a significant amount more than a conventional one; that level of cost is not in Tesco's plans.

All rumour and hearsay I suppose, but it's been alluded to a sufficient number of times that it takes on some semblance of verisimilitude.

Not really. Hearsay takes on a semblance of being hearsay.

I have no axes to grind with Castleford, I enjoy the rivalry and never miss a derby game. I'm not adding to the pathetic swipes that take place online between our "fans", just posting information I have been told is reliable. That's why after a lot of thought I joined, following years of reading.

I completely understand Castleford fans being defensive, cast your mind back to how some people were so convinced Thornes Park was viable, how defensive some of the SWAG lot got when evidence (or lack of it) came to light. Fully is passionately fighting his corner, just as TRB does for Wakefield. No amount of "hear-say" will change his mind, his view point is fixed on Junction 32 and fair play.

I hope another supermarket can be brought in, but at best this only delays something which has a very short window of existence. If either of us miss this deadline it's curtains. Who is to say either of us could maintain full time rugby at our present homes, let alone new ones.

My only concern for Fully is that it will hit him harder than most, as he passionately believes in it.

Thank you very much RFL for this continued state of affairs.

Actually I used the term 'over-budget' on their new store development programme for the last two years (in the section of the original post deleted) and not 'overspent' as you are posting I said. There is a very subtle difference in those two statements, so I needed to clarify that for the record.

In answer to your question, Tesco have made clear to all their store development partners that they have indeed exceeded their budgets for the last two years and the reason they told them this, is that they are looking to these partners to value engineer developments as much as possible. I am not sure why you would think you would find this information on their website? While the information of the overspend is not confidential, the actual budget amounts would indeed be reasonably confidential and I bet you can't find any information on any other Tesco departments which have come within or over their budgets for the year either.... why would you?

The point is, every department in Tesco has budgets and budgets are set for many reasons and one of the biggest reasons in Tesco is to continue to deliver a high level of profitability & therefore return for it's shareholders. Tesco is not a bottomless pit and while going maybe tens of millions over budget on store development the last couple of years will not see Tesco unable to 'afford' this, they equally want to keep their costs as low as possible in a difficult global downturn. The point was originally made to demonstrate the fact that now having to a develop a store on stilts, which would cost maybe 25% more, on the WR site, explains why they would look at other options where in previous years speed (which site can be delivered first) would often justify a higher development cost, the focus as changed in recent years to keep development costs as low as possible. Equally, the last Tesco new store development programme I saw didn't include either a Wakefield or Castleford store being delivered in 2012. This programme is fluid and projects get added and projects fall off in the last quarter of the year previous, but generally that programme is the one that matches the budget set!

As for the other sites Tesco are looking at, the information I have is that Tesco have other site options in Castleford they are looking at instead of WR, but I have no idea where exactly those other options are, but a site up near the bus station has been mooted.

The 'industry' is saying WR is no longer in Tesco's plan for a new store, and that is now coming from many different sources, that is as much as I can tell you.

No, I don't believe the hear say because I hear completely differently. It's quite common for Wakefield fans to come on here spouting off about our position without any semblance of fact rather than what they hear on the streets. The majority of it actually turns out to be poppy-cock.

At the end of the day, most of the sites along the River Aire are at risk of Flooding. There is only the town centre that isn't really affected and there are no sites big enough, certainly for the ones like Tesco will be eyeing up, for such a site. They're going to have the same problem everywhere, Hicksons more-so, the Bus Depot (and significantly worse highways problems too), Nestle (which is probably closer to the River Aire). Even Edinburgh House's scheme is probably on the cusp of it but I think it has flood defences down there behind Davison and Robinson.

Anymore, for anymore? In, short, the flood risk will have been sorted a long, long time ago and I'm sure Tescos reassured. Hell, even Opus might foot the costs to sort out the stilts.

Quite possibly Fully, but I'm a great believer in the duck test:

Just be open to the possibility that Wheldon Road may not happen after all these years and investment from several places.

If time wasn't a factor there would be no issue. But we all know that's not the case.

All I'm saying is be fluid in your contemplation and expectations, it's far less likely to hurt if things do fall apart.
Yes I would consider Junction 32, whilst we continued on with our own designs, if the RFL would allow it. Would you do similar if the shoe was on the other foot?

The trouble is Bren, if it looks like a duck it most probably is going to be a duck. However, in your test you don't account for outside influences. In this instance, it could look like a duck but someone could have genetically modified that duck to make it go 'moo', in which case is it really a duck? Alternatively, I prefer to allude to the Zebra test in the popular American TV sitcom Scrubs (and in real-life medical circles) whereby when people hear hoofbeats, they automatically think horses, not zebras. (i.e. when you hear something you automatically think the easiest assumption rather than something more unlikely). Re: Opus, they only have Castleford Tigers on their website of listed properties - no other sites. www.opusnorth.co.uk/properties.php

The trouble is Bren, if it looks like a duck it most probably is going to be a duck. However, in your test you don't account for outside influences. In this instance, it could look like a duck but someone could have genetically modified that duck to make it go 'moo', in which case is it really a duck? Alternatively, I prefer to allude to the Zebra test in the popular American TV sitcom Scrubs (and in real-life medical circles) whereby when people hear hoofbeats, they automatically think horses, not zebras. (i.e. when you hear something you automatically think the easiest assumption rather than something more unlikely). Re: Opus, they only have Castleford Tigers on their website of listed properties - no other sites. www.opusnorth.co.uk/properties.php

Ok Fully please enlighten me, You say you know this not to be true. Go on prove it or are you just blinded by the amber wool you have over your eyes.

I am a Cas fan, I want this as much as anyone. But I have been told by a high up Wakefield counciler who is a Cas fan that the project as it is today is almost dead.

Reality my friend not nice but RW is out of his depth and dare not/ Will not tell us the facts. Come April he wont be able to hide but he will pedal a statement blaming everyone but himself.

Happy Xmas forget about the stadium its not going away fast!!

I would hope that no Wakefield fan would poke fun after what we've been through.

As I said previously, the time has come to think (again) seriously think about a move to Stanley. This doesn't have to be permanent, but if it keeps your club alive can it really be that bad.

After the past week we all know which site the council needs to happen, the other would be nice, but doesn't carry the same benefits to the wider community, therefore doesn't carry the same weight.

As we stand now, Junction 32 would be great for Castleford and great for our council. But doesn't service the whole region in the same way as Junction 30, as it's a privately owned facility and doesn't possess the same range of facilities.
Junction 30 is seen by the council as possessing a lot wider reaching benefits and will essentially "be on their books" so will satisfy central government in terms of sporting and leisure provisions. It will also have education facilities and the much needed jobs.

Junction 32 in many ways can be seen as "an added bonus", Junction 30 is seen as a necessity in a great number of ways. All this makes you wonder how the feasibility study would have ruled if done objectively, which was all Wakefield ever sought.

Staying at Junction 32 may be a bitter pill to swallow but could save you in the long term.

Happy Christmas Castleford fans.

And this post takes the small piece of fact and adds a whole lot of "what I think is"

And so the merry go-round continues. I'm as bad because I got dragged in against my better judgement to which I appologise

What are the timeframes for Newmarket then?



With all due respect, both will bring in jobs so that's a mute point. Also, J32 already has much of the infrastructure in place which the Council and or other companies won't have to foot the bill for. Who else is using the stadium as a community facility aside from WTW?



It won't be on their books as they're not funding and they won't be paying for the upkeep of it. That will come down to the Trust? J32 will also have education facilities and provide jobs. Also, all the jobs will not be provided immediately.



Are the Council not objective then?

As Binks has said, you've made a point and added in a load of 'I think' similar to my comments above. The argument is moot. We both need new stadiums, they both bring benefits to the local community and so forth and so forth.

And how exactly do you come to that conclusion without the Wakey tinted specs on?





Yes it does service the whole area in the same way as J30 - in fact it would service it better because of the better transport links and facilities that will be incorparated into the stadium, without being built on green belt land.

J30 reaches out to nobody apart from Wakefield as a rugby club and Yorkcourt who are using a stadium as a Trojan horse to building warehousing on said green belt land.

You keep saying we should move into newmarket as a temporary option, but you say you think only one stadium would be built, so what your saying is we should move into newmarket (assuming its get through the PI and thats a big if) permanantly.

Moving into newmarket would make us worse off financially, which would mean we wouldn't be able to spend competativly, it wouldn't make us any more likely to survive in sl, it would make us less likely to be able to survive imho, we would have to reduce our playing, marketing and academy budget and we would be a a weaker club (like trinity under richardsons regime) and so we would end up losing our licence.

The only weakness is the ground at the moment, we are a well run club in all other respects, i think the rfl prefer a well run club, that is competitive, has excellent youth development, community work and is competitive on the field, but has an old stadium to one that is a new stadium but is weaker in all those areas.

As leigh found out to their cost moving to a new stadium you don't own, from an old one you do own can make you financially much weaker as a club, in 10 years time only the biggest clubs like wigan and hull will be able to survive if they dont own their own stadium imho.

This greenbelt land?

Also you say there is better transport links, apart from a station with trains running between Knottingley and Leeds (hotbed of CT supporters getting on there i'll wager!) it's almost identical. Oh except further away from the majority of the WMDC catchment area than Stanley. Facilities? neither stadium has had so much as a brick laid down yet and no detailed plans have been released with what facilities there will be in either stadium, so i'm afraid you have been caught talking out of your booty.

Existing train station with some sort of frequent line service, existing bus route connections from Leeds to Pontefract, close to the motorway, existing leisure facilities. Infrastrucute is pretty much there, so not really identical.

There is a rail link to Newmarket. Google Newmarket Colliery and you'll see all the photos.
All the old lines are still there......its just someone has built some houses on the other end of the line and it might slow traffic on Aberford Road if we have a big steam engine clunking along......but they are there.
I vote we move the houses.