On the contrary, I think some people believe that Harlequins make rugby league what it is. Put it this way, the only thing Harlequins disappearing or being demoted will do is potentially alter the TV deal. In the time that we've had rugby league in London, national media coverage has decreased significantly and during the time I was doing my dissertation, one of my interviewees stated that the perception on most editorial desks is that we're still very much a Northern sport (which we are)

However, I cannot see us suddenly going from overnight to a new dawn where no games are televised. A broadcaster will pick it up as it is a marketable game. Potentially, someone like PremierSports could invest in it and suddenly find themselves with 400,000 new customers over night. And similarly, if Sky dropped rugby league, I'd estimate a few people may reduce their Sky package not to include Sky Sports. Obviously it's all ifs and buts but people are making assumptions and using them as fact. We don't know until it happens.

A very good post

I think we need to be a bit careful and not jump to conclusions as no-one knows what sort of assistance has been requested or provided.
However, I think the RFL needs to be very careful. In the 'good old days' an existing SL club's survival in SL depended on its performance on the field and the team with the fewest points at the end of the year was relegated. In those circumstances assisting a team to stay up by say, awarding them 3 points for a win whilst everyone else got 2, or disallowing every 3rd try their opponents scored would have been viewed as outrageous and would have made a mockery of the sport. Nowadays a club's survival in the SL is largely dependent on their financial performance with less emphasis on the on-field performance, so providing certain teams with financial support whilst denying it to others is not all that different to this hypothetical extra points scenario.
I can understand (though don't necessarily agree) with giving clubs from expansion areas like Catalans & Crusaders a hand for the first 3 years when they first enter the competition but no established club should be treated any differently to any other otherwise they risk making the 'competition' a laughing stock.

There is no way at all that the RFL should bail out London. The whole London thing has been a failure from start to finish and IMO if we want to expand the game then it should be from the heartlands outwards, not by just sticking satellite clubs in areas where they think they have a good catchment area.

If a business is failing (and needing to be propped up by £1.5 million per annum is failing in my book) then why chuck more money at it? The Harlequins are trying to compete in a league that they are not ready for, the business is just not right for SL. They get poor attendances and whilst the player development is certainly improving, it's not at SL level as yet. There is no way they should get a franchise and i'd like to see them drop down to say Championship 1 and start to build their business from there.

When we have clubs like Widnes, who (whilst they have had financial problems in the past) have now clearly got everything in place to run an SL franchise, I can't understand why they keep propping up the London experiment. I don't actually have anything against the London club and would love to see them get to the level where they can run a franchise properly, but they are simply not at that level and it would be just ludicrous to keep financing them indefinately with the hope that they will one day make it.

David Hughes hasn't asked for financial assistance-I spoke to him 2 days after his meeting with Woods from the RFL-He is rich enough to fund the club but is unwilling to fund it all as a 35% owner. Lennegan being the owner of 65%.

Why do they need their own ground-Hull FC, Wigan etc dont have

He should buy Lenegans 65% then, everyones happy

If an astute business man with pockets as deep as Branson pulled out from the Bronco's...why do we feel that the bafoons at the RFL know better then he did, and can somehow make it work. Business IQ Branson Versus the RFL...who's your money on?? C'mon get real!!

There are decisions made every year in the RFL that we all simply have to accept and move on from. The RFL have been and tried for many years and it hasn't worked. Wrap up it up and move on, don't go throwing more good money after bad money.

The Challenge cup weekend has just been and gone, and was attended by fans from clubs....big and small. I attended and saw three Quins shirts and not a single London amateur club shirt. It isn't working down there, lets just accept it and move on.

Is that how success is judged these days

Branson is a money maker-No one who owns a sports club makes money generally

I disagree about Harlequins having any effect about the amount of money Sky put into the game. Very very few Southerners watch the game. But I know plenty of people in Cas that would cancel their sports package if rugby league wasn't on. Some even cancel during the off season. So the fear of losing Northerners sky money is more of a factor than having a failing Southern team made up of Northerners with a sprinkling of Southerners and forgieners.

On TV? I'm sure I saw a statistic that the majority of Sky viewers of RL were based in the south.

EDIT: Indeed I did, here: [url=http://www.therfl.co.uk/about/page.php?id=159&areaid=26550 per cent of viewers who watch Rugby League on Sky Sports live in the South of England[/url

I don't undestand why we find it so difficult to get them to turn up to matches then! Something is going wrong somewhere.

The fact that it takes people living little over 10miles away an hour to get to the ground by car (which the majority on Londoners don't have) and an hour and a half by public transport probably accounts for a lot of it.

London is a time consuming place to travel across, it's not as simple as saying '8 million people live in London, if Quins attract 0.01% of them they'll be profitable'

Not that it will happen but RL fans need to go to red hall on mass to Protest about this sort of stuff, But they wont! The RFL is like watching a family member on Heroin at first you try to help but after all the lies and pain you end up washing your hands of them!!

R.I.P Rugby League

But have you ever tried watching a match in a Pub down South. Almost impossible. Londoners would rather watch a division one game of football than put on RL. Indicates to me that those watching the match are actually Northerners living down south.

Is there a more corrupt league in any sport than this superleague ?

I just wonder when they are going to start the financial aid to Cas, Wakey Salford , even to saints cos they posted a big loss this year ........................................ My advice for this one is "dont hold your breath".

It makes the championship more attractive if just to get away from these bent s

Living in the south now i can assure you that is not the case.

Like i said above they must all be watching it as home as some form of curiousity as they certainly are not watching it in a pub.

By the way its Hatfield in Hertfordshire not South Yorkshire.

Also ever seen a school RL game down south as there are no School teams in Hertfordshire or Bedfordshire. All ths developement in the south must be in South London as it certainly is not in North London. St Albans Stags i belive it is or Luton Vipers are both based at RU teams. development hey

i dropped on a guy who was a director of a now championship club when i was a player their. we got onto talking about the game and he said he had resigned has a director at the club recentley because the game was bent,im also lead to believe he was at one stage on the rfl council and again he resigned because in his words things were done under hand with hidden agenda`s.no suprise their then because thats what we all know anyhow,what worries me is how many more of these people that keep our championship clubs going are going to pull out and walk away because of richard lewis and his hangeronners pipe dream of expansion at all costs and forget the rest,this guy is convinced that the franchise system was brought in to save the likes of expansion clubs because in time and reduction in overseas players will almost certainly mean they spend years lingering at the bottom end of super league before finally one year they finish bottom and would be beyond saving,has it stands at the minute we still have promotion and relegation the only difference is that the rfl choose who goes up and down not results on the field.

I can watch RL in my local.

Anyway, why does it matter whether they're watching at home or in the pub? Surely somebody watching it at home is more valuable to both Sky and the game as a whole. More people will see ads Sky sells, making them more valuable, making RL more profitable for Sky, encouraging Sky to keep hold of the rights.

Could you please expand on this puzzle you have posted.

Would I be right in thinking what you are saying is it is only southerners who go into pubs?

No but it's not a bad inidactor for the level of interest in the game...which we are always being told how massive and growing it is down there. Yet at one..if not the biggest and most traditional Rugby League event on the Calendar, this massive interest by Londoners just isn't there!

Well how shall we judge it? What actual measurable factor whall we use to judge if it is / has been successfull down there?....because every angle which the realists look at it isn't working! Ok we hear on tv a few persons saying how well it is taking off in the background...all the youngsters playing the game etc etc...yet there is nothing physically to support this suggestion, were there any London schools in the Schools finals before the Challenge Cup??? - NO!. Are these just pundits employed by, or saying the right things by SKY etc....possibly?

The factors that we use, are those that we can actually see.....not claims! actually physically see as facts.

Attendances at their home games - Poor, an not seemingly growing either!
Attendances at their away games - almost none existant!
Attendances at the big community finals Challenge cup or Grand Final - Rarely!
Financial viability - Clearly failing!

........So where is this most illusive of support? After 20 or 30 years and we are still not seeing it, it's not unreasonable to think that it doesn't exist and that it is just talked up hype and tripe!

For the few fans who do genuinely follow the Quins...credit to you. However, in terms of their eligibility for Superleague....all they do is tick a box for the almighty SKY, whose pocket our game now lives in!

You're right, it's a terrible indicator.

Your straw poll was of what? People wearing Quins shirts at Wembley?

You know that people don't have to wear their club's colours at events (I don't tend to)? Not withstanding the fact that not all London RL fans support Quins (I don't), or the fact that not everybody buys a replica shirt...

Add to that that you will have seen only a tiny percentage of the people at Wembley that day...


Well the number of Quins players brought through their academy – outstripping most other SL sides, would give ‘physical proof’ to this extremely valid point.


Perhaps you should start using some…


Valid point

Absolutely not the Quins issue.

Perhaps you should contact the RFL for actual facts and figures on the number of London based RL fans that attended the final… that would provide an actual number, rather than your ‘I saw three Cas shirts and one Quins shirt’ straw poll.

Certainly, but I suspect only at the same rate as other SL clubs.


It depends what you’re judging – support for Quins or support for RL in London?

In a family fortunes style survey of 100 London pubs who were asked to put the Superleague on the big screen on a Friday, or the NL1 on Thursday...the most popular answers experienced in our survey were..

1) No...there is some football/any football on, that we'd rather watch. 62%
2) No...what games that then? Is that different from Union then? 15%
3) No...we don't watch that in here. 14%
4) Of course I can mate, it's a right game 9%

These are peoples typical experiences that are expressed in previous posts.

Can you provide me/us with a link to this survey?

kthxbai