i personally find this talk of underhand business activities, tax avoidance, and a lack of moral ethics somewhat of a personal insult. I am a chartered accountant and am proud to say i am. The average chartered accountant will spend at least six years one way or another training and passing exams before they can use the term chartered accountant. They then spend another two years post qualification before they can even represent a client and a further two before you can sign a set of accounts or tax computations.

It is one of the most heavily regulated industries in the country (potentially behind law and medicine) and every year i have to submit details of why i am a "fit a proper individual" to represent clients to a panel at the icaew to be allowed to continue practicing. Combine that with the six monthly ethics training i have to attend and you may begin to understand why the implication that the industry and the firms within it are somehow "dodgy" is somewhat offensive.

Before you start to discredit a firm you may actually wish to understand what these companies do. And i mean really understand what they do rather than take the tabloid stance of banks/financial services and professional firms as being somehow harmful to our economy

Probiz are fundamentally a group of accountants who act under the umbrella of "Probiz". They are a business advisory company who deal in professional services. Much like PWC - Ernst and Young

This may involve accountancy services including financial reporting, taxation and business restructuring.

It will also include services such as corporate finance, legal and statutory services and marketing services, along with providing things such as detailed business plans to companies to help assist banks with lending overdrafts.

Of the services above i think you will the majority help to create value for their clients rather than as you put it "help them to not pay as much tax".

Moving onto your second point:

This talk of the wealthy people paying accountants to pay less tax is true. However what you have to remember is that if a wealthy individual saves tax via an accountant it leaves him or his company with more income to spend or invest. i.e. to create new businesses and in turn create new jobs - who in turn pay tax on their earnings.

All individuals in society pay a basic rate of tax on all their earnings. 20% on pay up to £40k. Whilst the wealthier pay twice as much tax as basic rate tax payers on income of the £40k threshold. This idea that somehow the poor pay more because the rich pay less as you can see is simply incorrect.

What accountants do is simply apply the rules to a scenario so as to minimise client’s tax. We do not make the rules. We do not bend the rules (unless we want to go to jail). If you want to blame anyone blame all politicians as they make the rules.

If you really want know what accountants do - so next time you feel like insulting a profession/firm/individual who the majority of society hold in high esteem have a look here:

www.icaew.com

i personally find this talk of underhand business activities, tax avoidance, and a lack of moral ethics somewhat of a personal insult. I am a chartered accountant and am proud to say i am. The average chartered accountant will spend at least six years one way or another training and passing exams before they can use the term chartered accountant. They then spend another two years post qualification before they can even represent a client and a further two before you can sign a set of accounts or tax computations.

It is one of the most heavily regulated industries in the country (potentially behind law and medicine) and every year i have to submit details of why i am a "fit a proper individual" to represent clients to a panel at the icaew to be allowed to continue practicing. Combine that with the six monthly ethics training i have to attend and you may begin to understand why the implication that the industry and the firms within it are somehow "dodgy" is somewhat offensive.

Before you start to discredit a firm you may actually wish to understand what these companies do. And i mean really understand what they do rather than take the tabloid stance of banks/financial services and professional firms as being somehow harmful to our economy

Probiz are fundamentally a group of accountants who act under the umbrella of "Probiz". They are a business advisory company who deal in professional services. Much like PWC - Ernst and Young

This may involve accountancy services including financial reporting, taxation and business restructuring.

It will also include services such as corporate finance, legal and statutory services and marketing services, along with providing things such as detailed business plans to companies to help assist banks with lending overdrafts.

Of the services above i think you will the majority help to create value for their clients rather than as you put it "help them to not pay as much tax".

Moving onto your second point:

This talk of the wealthy people paying accountants to pay less tax is true. However what you have to remember is that if a wealthy individual saves tax via an accountant it leaves him or his company with more income to spend or invest. i.e. to create new businesses and in turn create new jobs - who in turn pay tax on their earnings.

All individuals in society pay a basic rate of tax on all their earnings. 20% on pay up to £40k. Whilst the wealthier pay twice as much tax as basic rate tax payers on income of the £40k threshold. This idea that somehow the poor pay more because the rich pay less as you can see is simply incorrect.

What accountants do is simply apply the rules to a scenario so as to minimise client’s tax. We do not make the rules. We do not bend the rules (unless we want to go to jail). If you want to blame anyone blame all politicians as they make the rules.

If you really want know what accountants do - so next time you feel like insulting a profession/firm/individual who the majority of society hold in high esteem have a look here:

www.icaew.com

I dont slag anyone off who can help me dodge any tax at all. Im sick of being taxed up to the tash, every corner you turn your robbed legally, and next 20% Vat !!!!!

I dont slag anyone off who can help me dodge any tax at all. Im sick of being taxed up to the tash, every corner you turn your robbed legally, and next 20% Vat !!!!!

Thanks for taking the time to write all this, but I do know what Accountants firms do and I was not inferring they were doing anything illegal, just exploiting loopholes in the system.

Clearly (as an example), if the majority of premiership footballers are not paying the full tax they should, then this leaves a significant gap between what is collected in tax and what could be. Consequently, I don't see why there isn't a correlation with them exploiting such loopholes and us average Joes paying more in tax (admittedly not PAYE which i appreciate I did not clarify, but other forms of tax).

Regulation does not in itself mean that everbody does as they should (NB- I am not tarring all professionals with the same brush), you mention Solicitors as probably the most regulated, yet I have seen countless professional negligence claims against such firms for fraud and dishonesty - particularly relating to Mortgage Fraud, and I have also seen many professional negligence claims made against Accountants for various things including matters relative to tax advice.

Thanks for taking the time to write all this, but I do know what Accountants firms do and I was not inferring they were doing anything illegal, just exploiting loopholes in the system.

Clearly (as an example), if the majority of premiership footballers are not paying the full tax they should, then this leaves a significant gap between what is collected in tax and what could be. Consequently, I don't see why there isn't a correlation with them exploiting such loopholes and us average Joes paying more in tax (admittedly not PAYE which i appreciate I did not clarify, but other forms of tax).

Regulation does not in itself mean that everbody does as they should (NB- I am not tarring all professionals with the same brush), you mention Solicitors as probably the most regulated, yet I have seen countless professional negligence claims against such firms for fraud and dishonesty - particularly relating to Mortgage Fraud, and I have also seen many professional negligence claims made against Accountants for various things including matters relative to tax advice.

Apparently they are doing the same with Halifax
www.halifaxrlfc.co.uk/page.php?id=1386

This could be interesting as they have also invested in West Bromich Albion as a platinum member same as Halifax they must have loads of cash that can only be good for you
www.wba.co.uk/page/ClubPartnersD ... 66,00.html

Apparently they are doing the same with Halifax
www.halifaxrlfc.co.uk/page.php?id=1386

This could be interesting as they have also invested in West Bromich Albion as a platinum member same as Halifax they must have loads of cash that can only be good for you
www.wba.co.uk/page/ClubPartnersD ... 66,00.html

You show great loyalty to your occupation however, are you saying that all companies and all those people making millions a year pay income tax at the correct level YES or No. Do you also believe that the salary cap is fair or are there loopholes within the system that allow clubs to spend greater amounts on players contracts than others YES or NO

You show great loyalty to your occupation however, are you saying that all companies and all those people making millions a year pay income tax at the correct level YES or No. Do you also believe that the salary cap is fair or are there loopholes within the system that allow clubs to spend greater amounts on players contracts than others YES or NO

And what exactly has this to do with this thread ?

And what exactly has this to do with this thread ?

What on earth has this got to do with people in Africa?
Absolutely nothing, come on pal it's Christmas day and if you are feeling so charitable and so concerned about people in Africa, then please send your donations to...www.unchildren.org/

What on earth has this got to do with people in Africa?
Absolutely nothing, come on pal it's Christmas day and if you are feeling so charitable and so concerned about people in Africa, then please send your donations to...www.unchildren.org/

Absolutely right! Just like what have our new sponsors got to do with the way the tax system works in this country. I was only trying to show that life isn't fair for people and it's a lot fairer for the "ordinary joes" over here than it is for the majority of people in the world.

I'm sure that a lot of us do our best to try to help people who are less well off than we are. Similar to what PROBIZ are doing with Cas, really.

Absolutely right! Just like what have our new sponsors got to do with the way the tax system works in this country. I was only trying to show that life isn't fair for people and it's a lot fairer for the "ordinary joes" over here than it is for the majority of people in the world.

I'm sure that a lot of us do our best to try to help people who are less well off than we are. Similar to what PROBIZ are doing with Cas, really.