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| Well, I could be wrong about leasehold disclosures.
Looking at the 2023 accounts for St Helens, they include a 50 year long term leasehold valued at an eye watering £31 million. However, strip out this leasehold and the net liabilities stand at an astonishing £29 million. Leaving out the surplus on revaluation, Saints lost £2 million in 2023. Blumming heck. And Saints' ultimate parent company, Crowther Street Holdings Limited, is incorporated in the British Virgin Islands
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| Its funny listening to some Town fans go on about how much of a mess our club is in, and there is no doubt looking at the accounts that it is a long way from being rosy, but you take a look at Town accounts and by the time the timelines line up they will likely have more debt than us but the simple difference is having a person who is willing to keep pumping money in to service that debt. Pretty much all sports clubs are built on foundations made of quick sand and for the most part it just takes one person to walk away to ruin a club.
TF posting some of the account details from other clubs just shows how fragile everything is and London normally ends up looking the worst and people still think having a club in London should be a big part of the RFL strategy yet those sets of accounts just help show a club in London at a decent level is just not sustainable.
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| Yes, one of the conditions of SKY signing up was the inclusion of Paris and London in SL. Well, almost 30 years on and London are getting hammered with crowds less than 2k but the powers that be still seem obsessed with expansionism and including French teams even though their national team is as bad as it's ever been.
SKY'a involvement was supposed to transform Rugby League and spread the geographical compass, but ironically the advent of full time rugby has made the whole financial situation far worse and it doesn't bear thinking about what mess will be left if they do pull the rug, even though I have no sympathy with the SL clubs whatsoever.
If SKY would have left us alone I'm sure we'd still be playing at Thrum Hall and the sport as a whole would still be part time, finacially more stable and probably more entertaining to watch.
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| Hull FC lost nearly £1 million in 2023 and had net liabilities of £2.8 million. Included in the balance sheet is £1.5 million "player valuations"s" valued on a player compensation value basis. Well I never! I didn't know they could do this. A junk asset imo. So if that's stripped out the net liabilities would be over £4 million, with the main creditors being trade creditors of £1.2 million (what on earth could that be? Rent?) and £2.8 million "other borrowings".
I must admit, I didn't think clubs would be so heavily in debt. Surely one of the main IMG criteria would be that clubs should be solvent, as creditors (even directors) can never be relied upon to not call in the debt.
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| Quote ="Tony Fax"Hull FC lost nearly £1 million in 2023 and had net liabilities of £2.8 million. Included in the balance sheet is £1.5 million "player valuations"s" valued on a player compensation value basis. Well I never! I didn't know they could do this. A junk asset imo. So if that's stripped out the net liabilities would be over £4 million, with the main creditors being trade creditors of £1.2 million (what on earth could that be? Rent?) and £2.8 million "other borrowings".
I must admit, I didn't think clubs would be so heavily in debt. Surely one of the main IMG criteria would be that clubs should be solvent, as creditors (even directors) can never be relied upon to not call in the debt.'"
Aye, but as I've said elsewhere, IMG are setting questions to suit the answers. Solvency would obviously be beyond IMG rigging a question.
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| Hope I'm not boring you all digging up all the clubs' accounts.
Now it's the turn of Hull KR. Not much detail re the creditors breakdown because the accounts are abbreviated, but they lost over £360k in 2023 and had net liabilities of £5.4 million. As the 4 non blondes once sang ..... "What's going on?"
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| Quote ="Tony Fax"Hope I'm not boring you all digging up all the clubs' accounts.
Now it's the turn of Hull KR. Not much detail re the creditors breakdown because the accounts are abbreviated, but they lost over £360k in 2023 and had net liabilities of £5.4 million. As the 4 non blondes once sang ..... "What's going on?"'"
Keep going, it's very interesting.
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| Not sure how to classify the accounts but under the outside info category it’s up there with the best of it, keep going.
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| Quote ="Tony Fax"Yes, one of the conditions of SKY signing up was the inclusion of Paris and London in SL. Well, almost 30 years on and London are getting hammered with crowds less than 2k but the powers that be still seem obsessed with expansionism and including French teams even though their national team is as bad as it's ever been.
SKY'a involvement was supposed to transform Rugby League and spread the geographical compass, but ironically the advent of full time rugby has made the whole financial situation far worse and it doesn't bear thinking about what mess will be left if they do pull the rug, even though I have no sympathy with the SL clubs whatsoever.
If SKY would have left us alone I'm sure we'd still be playing at Thrum Hall and the sport as a whole would still be part time, finacially more stable and probably more entertaining to watch.'"
Pretty sure that's not true (Sky have denied it) but it was what Lindsay wanted
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| Had a shock looking at Huddersfield's 2023 accounts filed today ..... they made a profit of £3.2 million !!!!!
But alas, don't get too excited. That profit includes a loan of £5.8 million written off from other related parties (we all know who that is) so it's really a £2.6 million loss. The loan write off improved the net liabilities to £15.7 million., with the amount owed to related parties (we know who that is) being £18 million - the only silverware to show for that "investment" is a league leaders trophy. What a waste of money.
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| Quote ="Greg Florimos Boots"https://www.totalrl.com/castleford-tigers-on-the-cusp-of-grade-a-img-rating-as-super-league-club-reveals-in-depth-scoring-process/
How low did IMG set the bar when Cas are close to being granted a grade A license.'"
Some involvement from the masons maybe?
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| Bradford's 2023 accounts have finally appeared. No sign of the lease being capitalised. They made a profit of £22k but had net liabilities of £863k. I'm assuming they managed a profit through sponsorship income?
There is no related party note meaning the directors (or their businesses) mustn't be putting in their own money and the £1.3 million "other creditors" is coming from folk not associated directly with the club. Quite odd, if I was loaning the club loads of money I would want a seat on the BOD to make sure it's being spent wisely.
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| Quote ="Tony Fax"Bradford's 2023 accounts have finally appeared. No sign of the lease being capitalised. They made a profit of £22k but had net liabilities of £863k. I'm assuming they managed a profit through sponsorship income?
There is no related party note meaning the directors (or their businesses) mustn't be putting in their own money and the £1.3 million "other creditors" is coming from folk not associated directly with the club. Quite odd, if I was loaning the club loads of money I would want a seat on the BOD to make sure it's being spent wisely.'"
That seems to tie in with the lottery winner investor rumor then. Was told that the money put in was ring fenced for playing squad only but the irony is that maybe that money spent on off field investments may have got them that extra point or two which would have seen them get in SL. They have put together a quality squad for next year and should have a chance of winning the league but its not going to help them when it comes to getting in the closed shop.
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| Quote ="Greg Florimos Boots"https://www.totalrl.com/castleford-tigers-on-the-cusp-of-grade-a-img-rating-as-super-league-club-reveals-in-depth-scoring-process/
How low did IMG set the bar when Cas are close to being granted a grade A license.'"
Proof that you can polish a turd, although none of the 'improvements' enhance the experience of the normal spectator.
Great to see that IMG have pushed a few clubs into
improving.......by donning a set of Emperor's new clothes. The sport is less about improving performance on the pitch but more around how creative you can be with your accounts.
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| A few more 2023 accounts re Championship clubs:
Sheffield - Loss of £283k; net liabilities of £209k
Widnes - Loss of £280k; net liabilities of 34k
York - Loss of £380k; net liabilities of £580k
Swinton - Loss of £60k; but wait for it .... NET ASSETS of £75k !!!!! They're solvent! But the assets include £150k of goodwill re the purchase of a business, so god knows what that is and if it really is worth that much?
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Quote ="Tony Fax"A few more 2023 accounts re Championship clubs:
Sheffield - Loss of £283k; net liabilities of £209k
Widnes - Loss of £280k; net liabilities of 34k
York - Loss of £380k; net liabilities of £580k
Swinton - Loss of £60k; but wait for it .... NET ASSETS of £75k !!!!! They're solvent! But the assets include £150k of goodwill re the purchase of a business, so god knows what that is and if it really is worth that much?'"
Any mentioned of Swinton receiving an initial loan of £100 grand from Salford Council with another one for the same amount being approved and to follow?
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://ww ... FRD8fEp0aw
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Quote ="Tony Fax"A few more 2023 accounts re Championship clubs:
Sheffield - Loss of £283k; net liabilities of £209k
Widnes - Loss of £280k; net liabilities of 34k
York - Loss of £380k; net liabilities of £580k
Swinton - Loss of £60k; but wait for it .... NET ASSETS of £75k !!!!! They're solvent! But the assets include £150k of goodwill re the purchase of a business, so god knows what that is and if it really is worth that much?'"
Any mentioned of Swinton receiving an initial loan of £100 grand from Salford Council with another one for the same amount being approved and to follow?
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://ww ... FRD8fEp0aw
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The accounts are for the year ended 30/11/2023 so the loan has happened after the year end. Loans as at 30/11/23 = £61k and doesn't say who owed to. The odd thing about Swinton's accounts is the average number of employees for the year is 6 (28 the year before) so I wonder if the players are self employed? Is that allowed? Fax had 33 employees. Employees will also include backroom staff and directors. Bradford's average number of employees was 133 ............... !!!!!
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The accounts are for the year ended 30/11/2023 so the loan has happened after the year end. Loans as at 30/11/23 = £61k and doesn't say who owed to. The odd thing about Swinton's accounts is the average number of employees for the year is 6 (28 the year before) so I wonder if the players are self employed? Is that allowed? Fax had 33 employees. Employees will also include backroom staff and directors. Bradford's average number of employees was 133 ............... !!!!!
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| Quote ="Tony Fax"Bradford's 2023 accounts have finally appeared. No sign of the lease being capitalised. They made a profit of £22k but had net liabilities of £863k. I'm assuming they managed a profit through sponsorship income?
There is no related party note meaning the directors (or their businesses) mustn't be putting in their own money and the £1.3 million "other creditors" is coming from folk not associated directly with the club. Quite odd, if I was loaning the club loads of money I would want a seat on the BOD to make sure it's being spent wisely.'"
A significant portion of their debt will be owed to Andrew Chalmers: when he 'sold' the club to Wood and Co he said he wouldn't (ever) try to recoup it, but it didn't get written off
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| Quote ="Tony Fax"The accounts are for the year ended 30/11/2023 so the loan has happened after the year end. Loans as at 30/11/23 = £61k and doesn't say who owed to. The odd thing about Swinton's accounts is the average number of employees for the year is 6 (28 the year before) so I wonder if the players are self employed? Is that allowed? Fax had 33 employees. Employees will also include backroom staff and directors. Bradford's average number of employees was 133 ............... !!!!!'"
Thats a weird one if they are self employed but under contract and how that would work with the minimum pay rules. They must be on some sort of retainer but will be saving the club a tidy sum in tax and NI payments.
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| Quote ="Greg Florimos Boots"Thats a weird one if they are self employed but under contract and how that would work with the minimum pay rules. They must be on some sort of retainer but will be saving the club a tidy sum in tax and NI payments.'"
Doesn't make sense. There was a dispute between Leeds and the Tax man quite a few years back when certain Leeds players claimed they were self employed as they were selling their image rights rather than working (as a player) thus saving on not paying NI (employee and employer). Needless to say the Tax Man won. Other sports folk also tried it on, even Harry Gration on Look North and the Super League Show! So could be a tpo on the Swinton accounts. I'll dig out employee numbers on other clubs.
The latest club re 2023 accounts - Wigan. They lost £1.6 million and had net liabilities of £10.5 million, which included an asset of £2.2 million re the training ground at Orrell. They owed £9.4 million to ex director Ian Lenagan's company (he resigned last December). They had 119 employees (less than Bradford!).
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| Sounds as if the game is in rude health
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| Good job IMG negotiated an improved Sky TV deal to get more money into the game. Jeez. Why can’t our sport find one single good administrator
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| Quote ="freddies wig"Good job IMG negotiated an improved Sky TV deal to get more money into the game. Jeez. Why can’t our sport find one single good administrator'"
I thought the sky deal was reduced again last time but IMG are tasked with trying to improve it although it is never going to happen barring a miracle.
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| The last championship clubs' 2023 accounts I've dug out is Batley, for the time being, so 8 in total so far. They lost £227k and had net assets of £1.3 million because they own their ground included in fixed assets of £1.9 million. Of the other clubs - Barrow, Whitehaven, Featherstone and Doncaster have later filing deadlines (they may have tinkered around with their year end dates to extend the deadline), Toulouse of course being French don't file their accounts at Companies House, and cannot find Wakefield's new company name since Matthew Ellis took over so help appreciated tracking them down.
To summarise the 8 clubs so far in order of balance sheet strength:
Batley - £1.3m net assets; £(227k) loss; 32 employees
Swinton - £75k net assets; £(60k) loss; 6 employees
Widnes - (£34k) net liabilities; (£280k) loss; 34 employees
Sheffield - (£209k) net liabilities; (£283k) loss; 30 employees
Dewsbury - (£345k) net liabilities; (£100k) loss; 42 employees
Halifax - (£540k) net liabilities; (£200k) loss; 33 employees
York - (£580k) net liabilities; (£380k) loss; 36 employees
Bradford - (£863k) net liabilities; £22k profit; 133 employees
So (so far) we're all basically skint. Wouldn't be surprised if Batley sold their ground to keep afloat. Despite it's ridiculous slope that really would be a tragedy.
I will add the others when they become available and finish the Super League clubs later. Might even have a look at League 1.
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