Would it not be a question though, as to why the local councils of these areas can see an investment in those sides whereas for some reason others do not? I know other factors come into play but the likes of Halton council are 100% behind Widnes RLFC due to the benefits we bring to the area so why can't other clubs make their councils see the same? It's an odd one but a tough one. Thing with Wakey is they aren't paying for their own ground yet still make very little investment on the field so you have to wonder where any money actually goes!

I agree with what you say about Wakefield and lack of investment on the field, although they may argue if they had facilities akin to yours then they may have more income. Which leads us to as you point out why they can not convince their council to invest in a stadium. Well their is one glaring problem that there are three Rugby League clubs in the Wakefield Met area, Wakefield, Cas, and Fev so to support one the council would have to been seen to support all three. Now if they were all willing to share a stadium I am sure the council would have stumped up most of the money buy now, however this is never likely to happen.

So I would say it is much a problem of circumstance as anything else. Look at Halifax for example both the football and rugby team in one stadium equals shiny new stand.

How much of the stadium did Calderdale council pay for?

Problem is, Halifax, Leigh and Widnes are located in different council areas to Wakefield. Obviously, those councils have chosen to invest in sporting facilities, and thos clubs have been fortunate. Wakefield council obviously don't appear to have a lot of interest or urgency in helping its sporting clubs. However, a sporting club shouldn't EXPECT any financial aid from its local council as a matter of course, its a privelege and NOT an entitlement. Wakefield have been in the top flight for long enough, and had access to SL's many lucrative income streams for a long enough period to have made some investment in Belle Vue - something that just hasn't happened.
For the record, I'm a Batley Bulldogs fan and not a Halifax fan. You'll have noticed that 99% of Mount Pleasant has been redeveloped since 1990. Those redevelopments have been paid for via fund raising efforts and through hard work behind the scenes, tapping into various available financial resources. We've not had a single penny from Kirkless Council to help us. Would it have hurt Wakefield to follow a similar pattern of re-development instead of sitting idly back and waiting for a bail-out? No.

I agree Wakefield council cannot been seen just to be favouring one team when they have several teams in the area, so it seems that unless you build one big complex and it is located centrally to Cas, Wakey and Fev the council are never going to dip too deeply into their pockets. Unfortunately unless Cas, Wakey and Fev ground share this is never going to be an option. However it would be nice to have a facility like the Leigh Sports Village on this side of the hill as using that as a model would be a great asset to any community.

Er the Shay is a Council owned and run stadium and it is they who get the benefit of the income made on the facilities like bars, banqueting suite etc... not the two clubs who are tenants and pay rent, not arguing with that they stumped up several million pounds to finish the East Stand and a huge thanks to them for that.
We waited years and years plus it took a mass demo by the fans of both clubs to get our council to do something.
Most clubs in RL don't own their own stadium these days, Wigan, Huddersfield, Hull FC, Harlequins, Catalans, Crusaders, Bradford, Warrington etc...
Thing is Wakey, Salford and Cas are totally relying on somebody else stumping up the cash, understandable as there is no money in RL, but when their benefactors don't come up with the goods they cry wolf. Whilst I have sympathy for them the thing is they have done nowt with their grounds full stop, while we with our councils help have!

three new stands actually.

And it still isnt self sustainable.

The clubs still do see a benefit though from the banqueting suite, and corporate facilities.

I don't think many stadiums are really, well not if they are run by a council!!! I know the Galpharm is not making any money.
Yer the clubs do get some benefits which we should appreciate, its better than the old stadiums both Shay and Thrum Hall end of story!
I just wish that the stadium was run as a separate organisation a 'not for profit' business who reinvest any profit (which if run as a self financing business with good management there would) into the facilities.
I can dream one day eh?

Cas arent 'totally relying on the council' the council are giving us some land to loan 2 million against, the rest we are financing ourselves.

Not saying you are 'totally relying on the council' but you need them onboard big time plus a benefactor thats life.
You need to find a lot of money otherwise, I will only believe it when I see it up and running.
This is a bad time to be asking councils for help, they are having to make thousands redundant and cut back so justifying helping a professional sports club will be difficult.
Good luck, you need it!

As i said the council will only be giving us the 2 million pound land loan the rest of the 11.5 million will come from the sale of our ground, naming rights and other sponsorship, selling exeutive boxes, some funding from the developer and fans initatives such as the buy a brick scheme.

You make it sound so easy

Do you really think the money is out there in the current economic climate??

Forgive me if I do not share your optimism

Sorry, but those clubs that got into SL last time on the promise of shiny new stadia by 2012, and can only provide the same drawings next year, without any 'bricks and mortar' progress should be out

The current business model of managing the stadium will change although I doubt the Council will ever relinquish fully its interest in it. And who can blame them? Neither club has acted responsibly over the past and if any 'not for profit' business was running the stadium ran into financial difficulties, the Council know they would be expected to take back control given that it is their asset.

I dont think the Shay will ever be self financing, not even if the East Stand office areas were full with outside organisations. I think thats why we need to hope the Council continue to subsidise it rather than increase the rent the two clubs pay.

I was making the simple point that if it were not for council input then Halifax, Widnes, and Leigh would be in the same position as Wakefield, a ground not up to superleague standard. You have been lucky to have councils that can and will back their teams.

I just thought it was a bit disingenuous to make it sound as though Widnes, Halifax, and Leigh had some how managed to be the masters of their own destiny when clearly they were not.

And as for the point about superleague money and Wakefield using that and taking the hit on the playing side well I would say that one of the main reasons why Halifax would not be granted a franchise is that over the last few years they have clearly put all their eggs in one "first team" basket, meaning that their youth and second team structures are not up to scratch.

The fact is it is easy to have a go at other clubs and believe me I have had plenty of goes at Wakefield, but when it comes down to it the problem lies with the RFL.

But clubs therefore shouldn't be promising new stadiums they can't deliver - council funded or not. The problem is partly to do with the RFL as you say - they shouldn't be considering awarding ANY criteria points for stadia if there isn't a new stadium in place - bricks 'n 'all.

Even before the Council got invloved and funded the East Stand, the ground was better than 4 or 5 teams in SL Wakefield included. The ground was improved in stages as both the football club and rugby club were funding it at the time. Thats why the East Stand didnt get finished for 10 years - both clubs run out of money. So for you to suggest that the stadium is like it is soley due to our Council is incorrect.


Why shouldnt Wakefield take a hit on the playing side? They were safe from relegation for 3 years? Some of that money could have been invested in the facilities couldnt it?

Its hard for any team in the CC unless they have a big money backer to run full youth set ups. As you will find out.

Your are right they should not be promising new stadiums they can not deliver. The RFL will have know full well that these stadiums were not likely to be delivered, however they still chose to keep the teams they wanted. The whole point here is that the RFL will keep the teams they want to keep, And or course clubs will play the game to make it look like they are towing the line and I am with you that its is time that some other teams were given the chance to play for nothing at the bottom of SL. And I would agree with anybody that Wakefield are the least proactive Club with regards there ground.

Its far from easy, thats why it has taken so long, the main source of funding is selling our ground something that we couldnt do due to the health and safety executive dragging there feat on the blast zone, which is why it is so frustrating when the ill informed act as if we havent done anything becuase we cant be bothered, we have already put alot of hardwork and money into this stadium, which is now coming close to fruition, its a shame so many people are desperate to see us a fail. I will be glad when we dissapoint those people.

And people seem to think the only criteria that matters is stadia, we have improved across the board since we were given a franchise- we've increased sponsorship significantly despite the recesion, have one of the smallest anmounts of overseas players in sl, got one of the best youth set ups in rl with players representing england at 3 levels and built a competative squad that finished in the play offs in 09 and just missed out in 2010 and still have better attendances than 4 other teams in the league despite a poor start to the year, many of our big home games being on sky and two matches being hastily rearranged causing thousands of fans to miss them. We are also one of the most financialy stable teams in sl with no large debts, we dont rely on a sugar daddy and we were one of only 4 sl teams to make a (small) profit in 2009.

In your opinion would we have been better off rebuilding one stand, be massivley in debt, not bother investing in youth and having a bucket load of aussies in our team like hull kr? As you seem to have no critiscism of them.

The only criteria that matters for me is STADIA. All the other strengths you mention (sponsorship, home grown players etc.) are not unique to Cas unfortunately. If you take that Widnes and Fax franchise bid all these strengths exist, just stadia sets them apart from Cas and Wakey.

So although stadia is not the ONLY criteria it appears to be the one differentiating the franchise bids as Cas and Wakey can't tick this box.

The root of the whole problem lies with Super League. The whole franchise system has become a bit of a joke to be honest. The main aims of franchising were to create a set of teams that are financially stable, playing in modern stadia, and provide an environmment free from the pressures of relegation for at least 3 years to enable clubs to develop and promote home grown players through the system, and to increase the fan bases

Lets face it, clubs fall down on stadia - Wakey, Cas, Salford, Bradford, Saints and Hull KR (even though progress is being made in the case of Saints and Hull KR); Financial stability - Crusaders, Harlequins, and, if the rumours were to be believed Wakefield; Clubs still import over the hill or disgraced Aussies and Kiwis in preference to home grown talent, like Hull KR and Warrington, and some clubs fan bases are not increasing as required. How many teams have I not mentioned - Leeds, Wigan, Catalans (dont get me started on expansion!!)

At the end of the day, the whole system is corrupt, and if your face fits you are in. It shouldn't come down to that. The system should be fair and consistent across all levels, and the biggest factor should be on field performance. Yes, there should be financial stabilty. Yes, there should be modern stadia. Yes, there should be youth development, but at the end of the day the ability of a club to compete to a satisfactory level should be the defining factor. Franchising is not helping develop the game at all - although all is well if you listen to the propaganda coming out of Red Hall. Clubs are dying, or have died like Blackpool or have struggled like Whitehaven - where were the RL rescue squads and loans to help save them??

I would love to see Fax back in Super League - that is the whole point of sport - to have the ambitiion to be the best you can be. But if we don't get there I wont be too disappointed. To me, the Championship is more like proper RL, people not only in it for the money, but for the love of the game. There is passion for the game at this level that some SL clubs can only dream of, and long may it continue.

Hey touchy here mate, we like Cas honest a true RL town. Our only grumble over the years has been a Cas bias on Radio Leeds and other media when you had your 'wonder years' down with the minnows!
Thing is at the moment we cannot see a stadium rising although we do appreciate it all takes time. But I must add that most sports fans just think that all the boffins should waive their rulebook just for them and let clubs have stadiums wherever they want, which is unfair we do have rules to protect people from unsuitable developments.
As I said good luck, I must say though will a stadium out of town be your saviour? I think Cas is a community club and is better at the heart of that community like where you are now, but that won't tick any boxes will it sadly?

I'm sorry as much as i like fax (and i really do, always been my favorite away game and my father played for fax many moons ago) i havent seen any evidence that you could come close to cas on any of the other criteria (though feel free to provide evidence regarding crowds, youth development, commercial development, financial stability and ability to build a competative sl team) the only area that fax beat cas is stadia, which is why presumably your praying cas stadium plans go t*ts up as when we get our new stadium there will no longer be anything to critiscise.

£11.5 million? Thats a lot to find as I doubt your old ground is worth a lot as the housing market has slumped, even then my guess is £2 or £3 million at most, who will own the new stadium by the way?

Excellent post.