Sad its come to this and not how good you are on the pitch!
Yer standards of grounds need to improve but come on even the Premiership in football allowed ugly ducklings Blackpool in and how well are they doing? I am glad for them. You can do it by having a stadium development fund from all the cash the RFL rake in from the Finals where all the money goes into a central pot, where say 25% is offered to improve a clubs facilities either stadium or training.
They cannot grasp what it does for a club in the LONG TERM being up with the big boys, some of the glory fans stick (look at Bradford City) and done right the club invest in their facilities, again look at Blackpool FC they will be building new training facilities on the back of being in the Premiership. But no the Fat Controller thinks having clubs in 'development areas' which in other words means no hope of ever getting support areas but worth it just so you can say we have a SL club in London, Wales and France!
Dumb and dumber these two, wish I could meet him!

Is this the xscape next to pontefract Racecource and pontefract golf club?

its just off the m62

Yes also the junction 32 shopping centre

See - tourists are even enquiring on our board about this star attraction

I'm not a fan of the franchise system whatsoever, but the fact is that Wakefield, especially, were only admitted to SL on the proviso that they HAD to make ground improvements. That was back in 1998 - over 12 years ago. In the meantime, the franchise process and criteria have been introduced, and they STILL haven't got their house in order. All they've done is sit round and whinge that the local council weren't helping them build a shiny new ground free of charge. If the club was so concerned about maintaining their SL place, they should have invested in Belle Vue, and maybe built a stand or two. It might have meant playing cutback and have seen them facing a few seasons at rock bottom of the Super League, but it would have quite possibly preserved their top flight status.
In the meantime, other clubs (Halifax, Widnes, Leigh, etc...) have made the necessary improvements to their situations to warrant a SL franchise being awarded. Sorry, but Wakefield don't remotely deserve a place in the top flight under franchise the franchise process. Neither do Salford, for that matter.

spot on

think it took less for us to build a stand outside SL while other supporters took the mick, but had other stands completed by then while others have done nothing.

Add Cas to that as well.

I have to agree about Wakefield and the like doing nothing and expecting to get something built for nothing. But to bang on about Halifax, Widnes and Leigh is a bit rich the only reason you have a new stand and they have new grounds is that other people paid for them. You can hardly make out it was through foresight, planning and financial prudence from HRLFC that you have you new stand

So can we no expect to see Halifax cut back on players and spend a couple of years at the bottom of the championship to aid the council in getting the rest of your ground up to scratch?

Would it not be a question though, as to why the local councils of these areas can see an investment in those sides whereas for some reason others do not? I know other factors come into play but the likes of Halton council are 100% behind Widnes RLFC due to the benefits we bring to the area so why can't other clubs make their councils see the same? It's an odd one but a tough one. Thing with Wakey is they aren't paying for their own ground yet still make very little investment on the field so you have to wonder where any money actually goes!

I agree with what you say about Wakefield and lack of investment on the field, although they may argue if they had facilities akin to yours then they may have more income. Which leads us to as you point out why they can not convince their council to invest in a stadium. Well their is one glaring problem that there are three Rugby League clubs in the Wakefield Met area, Wakefield, Cas, and Fev so to support one the council would have to been seen to support all three. Now if they were all willing to share a stadium I am sure the council would have stumped up most of the money buy now, however this is never likely to happen.

So I would say it is much a problem of circumstance as anything else. Look at Halifax for example both the football and rugby team in one stadium equals shiny new stand.

How much of the stadium did Calderdale council pay for?

Problem is, Halifax, Leigh and Widnes are located in different council areas to Wakefield. Obviously, those councils have chosen to invest in sporting facilities, and thos clubs have been fortunate. Wakefield council obviously don't appear to have a lot of interest or urgency in helping its sporting clubs. However, a sporting club shouldn't EXPECT any financial aid from its local council as a matter of course, its a privelege and NOT an entitlement. Wakefield have been in the top flight for long enough, and had access to SL's many lucrative income streams for a long enough period to have made some investment in Belle Vue - something that just hasn't happened.
For the record, I'm a Batley Bulldogs fan and not a Halifax fan. You'll have noticed that 99% of Mount Pleasant has been redeveloped since 1990. Those redevelopments have been paid for via fund raising efforts and through hard work behind the scenes, tapping into various available financial resources. We've not had a single penny from Kirkless Council to help us. Would it have hurt Wakefield to follow a similar pattern of re-development instead of sitting idly back and waiting for a bail-out? No.

I agree Wakefield council cannot been seen just to be favouring one team when they have several teams in the area, so it seems that unless you build one big complex and it is located centrally to Cas, Wakey and Fev the council are never going to dip too deeply into their pockets. Unfortunately unless Cas, Wakey and Fev ground share this is never going to be an option. However it would be nice to have a facility like the Leigh Sports Village on this side of the hill as using that as a model would be a great asset to any community.

Er the Shay is a Council owned and run stadium and it is they who get the benefit of the income made on the facilities like bars, banqueting suite etc... not the two clubs who are tenants and pay rent, not arguing with that they stumped up several million pounds to finish the East Stand and a huge thanks to them for that.
We waited years and years plus it took a mass demo by the fans of both clubs to get our council to do something.
Most clubs in RL don't own their own stadium these days, Wigan, Huddersfield, Hull FC, Harlequins, Catalans, Crusaders, Bradford, Warrington etc...
Thing is Wakey, Salford and Cas are totally relying on somebody else stumping up the cash, understandable as there is no money in RL, but when their benefactors don't come up with the goods they cry wolf. Whilst I have sympathy for them the thing is they have done nowt with their grounds full stop, while we with our councils help have!

three new stands actually.

And it still isnt self sustainable.

The clubs still do see a benefit though from the banqueting suite, and corporate facilities.

I don't think many stadiums are really, well not if they are run by a council!!! I know the Galpharm is not making any money.
Yer the clubs do get some benefits which we should appreciate, its better than the old stadiums both Shay and Thrum Hall end of story!
I just wish that the stadium was run as a separate organisation a 'not for profit' business who reinvest any profit (which if run as a self financing business with good management there would) into the facilities.
I can dream one day eh?

Cas arent 'totally relying on the council' the council are giving us some land to loan 2 million against, the rest we are financing ourselves.

Not saying you are 'totally relying on the council' but you need them onboard big time plus a benefactor thats life.
You need to find a lot of money otherwise, I will only believe it when I see it up and running.
This is a bad time to be asking councils for help, they are having to make thousands redundant and cut back so justifying helping a professional sports club will be difficult.
Good luck, you need it!

As i said the council will only be giving us the 2 million pound land loan the rest of the 11.5 million will come from the sale of our ground, naming rights and other sponsorship, selling exeutive boxes, some funding from the developer and fans initatives such as the buy a brick scheme.

You make it sound so easy

Do you really think the money is out there in the current economic climate??

Forgive me if I do not share your optimism

Sorry, but those clubs that got into SL last time on the promise of shiny new stadia by 2012, and can only provide the same drawings next year, without any 'bricks and mortar' progress should be out

The current business model of managing the stadium will change although I doubt the Council will ever relinquish fully its interest in it. And who can blame them? Neither club has acted responsibly over the past and if any 'not for profit' business was running the stadium ran into financial difficulties, the Council know they would be expected to take back control given that it is their asset.

I dont think the Shay will ever be self financing, not even if the East Stand office areas were full with outside organisations. I think thats why we need to hope the Council continue to subsidise it rather than increase the rent the two clubs pay.

I was making the simple point that if it were not for council input then Halifax, Widnes, and Leigh would be in the same position as Wakefield, a ground not up to superleague standard. You have been lucky to have councils that can and will back their teams.

I just thought it was a bit disingenuous to make it sound as though Widnes, Halifax, and Leigh had some how managed to be the masters of their own destiny when clearly they were not.

And as for the point about superleague money and Wakefield using that and taking the hit on the playing side well I would say that one of the main reasons why Halifax would not be granted a franchise is that over the last few years they have clearly put all their eggs in one "first team" basket, meaning that their youth and second team structures are not up to scratch.

The fact is it is easy to have a go at other clubs and believe me I have had plenty of goes at Wakefield, but when it comes down to it the problem lies with the RFL.