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| [quote="Mr Dog":3nxr8klw]Only if you fancy watching Halifax Giant Sox in a year or two.....[/quote:3nxr8klw]
It does feel like the first step in becoming an NRL feeder club. Given our financial position, we're somewhat over a barrel.
If the upgrades are done, great. But then the value goes up and it costs more to buy back. You have to think that more interested parties is going to push the purchase price up as it is.
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| I told you about the interest from huddersfield months ago in the "merger with huddersfield" thread and I got well and truly dissed for it!
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| At the shirt launch the other week I heard that Davey was in discussions with the consortium working with the club. And that the consortium was also looking at running the stadium in a trust capacity. The difference from the "other" interested group being that they would have more clout to arrange events etc that could provide revenue opportunities for the club(s).
Apparently Davey has made it clear that whilst he wants to get involved, this is for the purpose of providing an interim solution for the giants; he won't be a sugar daddy for fax and the giants will eventually move to their own stadium. But his involvement might help secure the Shay and provide a platform to improve costs and revenues for each club.
He had been told the pitch couldn't handle 3 teams, well it can't handle 2. So it would require that to be resolved and hybrid pitch would seem to be that fix.
The 2 main concerns for me are, firstly I believe it would take circa 12 weeks for the new pitch to take. So if they wanted to move in 2026, some rescheduling would be needed or for us to play our home games elsewhere before then.
Secondly once the Giants are here. We risk losing fans, particularly, younger ones. Rather than watching say Fax at Hunslet, the Giants playing a Wigan at the the Shay might be more appealing. And moreso if Fax struggle to compete again like last season .
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| Short term pain for long term gain?
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| [quote="gizempo":tbt1u7g2]At the shirt launch the other week I heard that Davey was in discussions with the consortium working with the club. And that the consortium was also looking at running the stadium in a trust capacity. The difference from the "other" interested group being that they would have more clout to arrange events etc that could provide revenue opportunities for the club(s).
Apparently Davey has made it clear that whilst he wants to get involved, this is for the purpose of providing an interim solution for the giants; he won't be a sugar daddy for fax and the giants will eventually move to their own stadium. But his involvement might help secure the Shay and provide a platform to improve costs and revenues for each club.
He had been told the pitch couldn't handle 3 teams, well it can't handle 2. So it would require that to be resolved and hybrid pitch would seem to be that fix.
The 2 main concerns for me are, firstly I believe it would take circa 12 weeks for the new pitch to take. So if they wanted to move in 2026, some rescheduling would be needed or for us to play our home games elsewhere before then.
Secondly once the Giants are here. We risk losing fans, particularly, younger ones. Rather than watching say Fax at Hunslet, the Giants playing a Wigan at the the Shay might be more appealing. And moreso if Fax struggle to compete again like last season .[/quote:tbt1u7g2]
Plenty of useful and thoughtful info in what you have said and just picking out one point where you mentioned the consortium working with the club ( Fax ).
We have all heard the rumours which have been going round for some time now but if they are involved how come the council said they were considering up to March just 2 options which were the FC Town trust and that of Ken Davy?
How is it Fax and the consortium aren’t mentioned as a third option?
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| Are they even a plausible option when you consider their history.
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| [quote="faxcar":19xz022j]Plenty of useful and thoughtful info in what you have said and just picking out one point where you mentioned the consortium working with the club ( Fax ).
We have all heard the rumours which have been going round for some time now but if they are involved how come the council said they were considering up to March just 2 options which were the FC Town trust and that of Ken Davy?
How is it Fax and the consortium aren’t mentioned as a third option?[/quote:19xz022j]
Maybe the Council set an original deadline for bids and one never materialised from Halifax RL.
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| [quote="faxcar":35eiji2t]Plenty of useful and thoughtful info in what you have said and just picking out one point where you mentioned the consortium working with the club ( Fax ).
We have all heard the rumours which have been going round for some time now but if they are involved how come the council said they were considering up to March just 2 options which were the FC Town trust and that of Ken Davy?
How is it Fax and the consortium aren’t mentioned as a third option?[/quote:35eiji2t]
From what I heard, it was the Fax group that were in discussions with Davy, whether this has now taken a different turn or its just the way this is being reported as Davy leading this, remains to be seen.
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| [quote="gizempo":30g4h2v9]From what i heard, it was the Fax group that were in discussions with Davy, whether this has now taken a different turn or its just they way this is being reported as Davy leading this, remains to be seen.[/quote:30g4h2v9]
Which fits with some of the info I had heard that something was being discussed between the club and interested parties ( the consortium ) over the ownership of Fax and if it came off round about the springtime ( which fits with CMBC end of March deadline for getting shut ) it would be “Big”.
So at that time anyone taking control of the club also had the running of the Shay to take into consideration and were obviously looking at ways of doing it.
This was before Ken Davy came onto the scene but now he’s shown a firm interest with the clout to do it the options have now recently changed with him in pole position.
One possibility is we could end up with new different owners of both the club and the Shay in the same period of time running up to the end of the typical financial year.
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| Haa anyone considered that all this might just be a ruse by Mr Davy to use as leverage against shuddersfield council to meet his own agenda?
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| [quote="Hudd-Shay":1d2eq0md]Haa anyone considered that all this might just be a ruse by Mr Davy to use as leverage against shuddersfield council to meet his own agenda?[/quote:1d2eq0md]
Yep. You have Hudds.
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| I think its the lesser of two evils, although i like the idea of the working group, I hate the idea that there is someone on it that might throw a party if Fax went bust. As Fax fans I am not sure how we could support something like that and although there are a lot of unanswered questions with the Davy bid its pretty obvious the council would rather get rid of the ground over have another group just running it. I feel like the working group is just kicking the can down the road, they don't have any financial muscle and its just going to keep the status quo for the next few years.
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| Let Davy come in and do the refurb. FC and Fax don’t have the money to do it. In fact Fax will never have the money to chip in. As Bubba has said Bosworth doesn’t have any interest in The Shay. Where will The Shay end up after someone has had a purpose built pitch laid and LED lighting installed who knows, but the work will not get done without Davy. As GFB said if the fans group or working group get hold of it they have no money of comparison to Davy and the issue would get prolonged
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| [quote="faxcar":2jkf8oyk]Which fits with some of the info I had heard that something was being discussed between the club and interested parties ( the consortium ) over the ownership of Fax and if it came off round about the springtime ( which fits with CMBC end of March deadline for getting shut ) it would be “Big”.
So at that time anyone taking control of the club also had the running of the Shay to take into consideration and were obviously looking at ways of doing it.
This was before Ken Davy came onto the scene but now he’s shown a firm interest with the clout to do it the options have now recently changed with him in pole position.
One possibility is we could end up with new different owners of both the club and the Shay in the same period of time running up to the end of the typical financial year.[/quote:2jkf8oyk]
Having asked around ( you know my sources ) the edited version is the rugby consortium were in discussion with the Council about taking over the running of the shay then Davy made his proposal and ultimately because of his vast wealth he can get the works done quicker . What gizempo put is spot on but the aim is for Davy, the rugby consortium and the shaymen to all work together to find solutions that work for everyone, lots and lots of negotiations and moving parts so nothing set in stone . I'm still digesting the proposal because as been mentioned there are risks attached on multiple levels.
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| While Ken Davy has the financial clout, the whole thing doesn't sit easy with me.
When KD became the owner of Huddersfield Town, buying them out of administration if I recall correctly, he transferred the Football Clubs shares in the stadium into a trust or business that he controlled for a nominal £1. To "safeguard" them. When new owner at Huddersfield town was settled (Dean Hoyle I think) KD tried to sell the shares back at market rate. This led to a long drawn out affair and he certainly isn't popular with the Town fans.
He's a businessman, if he spends money it is to make money (except with the Giants of course). So if he sinks a large amount of cash into The Shay, he'll want a return on the investment eventually.
Personally I can't see a new stadium in Huddersfield been built. There are very limited suitable sites. Especially now modern planning regs will have to show how you plan for people to travel to games using public transport. The only site near the town centre suitable would have been the old Sports Centre but the Uni are building on that now,
So in 3-5 years, Huddersfield are either still playing at The Shay, or looking for a return to The John Smiths, where all evidence of the Giants existence has already been removed in favour a very blue and white theme. Kevin Nagel (town owner) has said the Giants are welcome as long as they want to be there, but KD has started laying the foundations to move out.
Then there is also the issue, KD isn't a young man, what if something happens to him?
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| It's not an ideal situation but you're not in one now. Getting a stadium upgraded to SL standard isn't to be sniffed at. KD may want buying out at some stage but there won't exactly be a long queue of clubs wanting to do that will there? Just Fax and Town. Neither will be moneybags so unless KD is prepared to see the ground empty he, or his successors, will need to be reasonable. The only worry would be a Ricoh Arena style fiasco that Coventry City had for a while.
As for Hudders getting a brand new stadium of their own - I don't know the geography of the town but I can't imagine KD hasn't looked into this already before making noises about moving out.
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| Definitely go for the Ken Davy option, he's the only person who can revolutionise the Shay ......... no way should we let that band of footy fans near it, they'll be totally out of their depth.
You never know, when the Giants do play their games at the Shay and they barely scrape 2k with "home" fans being outnumbered by away fans, Ken might eventually twig that the Huddersfield people are soccer not RL , and rename the club Halifax.
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| There’s always going to be a certain amount of uncertainty / risk regarding whoever and whatever happens to the Shay but don’t forget it’s not either Fax or FC Town who are wanting to buy it but CMBC who are desperate to get rid and sell it and that’s the reason we’ve got to this point.
All the “what happens if’s” should be as obvious to all interested parties if not more so as they are to us and should be thoroughly discussed before any deal is done and as far as is possible should be covered by any agreements / covenants regarding the future of the Shay.
And as an edit. [b:1ch0yff8]All the members of the fan base of both Fax & Town should be fully informed concerning these.[/b:1ch0yff8]
What is known ( if it happens ) is in the short to medium term his stated intent is to bring the ground up to Super League standard
by 2026 and how many others are in a position to do that, certainly no working group.
Also “what if” no one” comes in with an offer.
More of the same with the state of the pitch, the ground left to rot with the council losing hundreds of grand a year with both clubs unable to make up the shortfall?
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| [quote="Listenup94":3ad7xtsl]Having asked around ( you know my sources ) the edited version is the rugby consortium were in discussion with the Council about taking over the running of the shay then Davy made his proposal and ultimately because of his vast wealth he can get the works done quicker . What gizempo put is spot on but the aim is for Davy, the rugby consortium and the shaymen to all work together to find solutions that work for everyone, lots and lots of negotiations and moving parts so nothing set in stone . I'm still digesting the proposal because as been mentioned there are risks attached on multiple levels.[/quote:3ad7xtsl]
Yep that all fits and taking one thing at a time with what we have some idea about as it stands at the moment.
We have the tax issue / resolution at the end of the month.
The Shay issue running to March.
The club ownership issue with a consortium playing an active part even though there’s been no official takeover but rumoured to be in the spring.
On the latter. Why and how they’re waiting for the spring whilst being actively involved now is a mystery to me?
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[quote="faxcar":1mg4yl4r]Yep that all fits and taking one thing at a time with what we have some idea about as it stands at the moment.
We have the tax issue / resolution at the end of the month.
The Shay issue running to March.
The club ownership issue with a consortium playing an active part even though there’s been no official takeover but rumoured to be in the spring.
On the latter. Why and how they’re waiting for the spring whilst being actively involved now is a mystery to me?[/quote:1mg4yl4r]
https://www.heelanassociates.co.uk/limi ... -tax-year/
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[quote="faxcar":1mg4yl4r]Yep that all fits and taking one thing at a time with what we have some idea about as it stands at the moment.
We have the tax issue / resolution at the end of the month.
The Shay issue running to March.
The club ownership issue with a consortium playing an active part even though there’s been no official takeover but rumoured to be in the spring.
On the latter. Why and how they’re waiting for the spring whilst being actively involved now is a mystery to me?[/quote:1mg4yl4r]
https://www.heelanassociates.co.uk/limi ... -tax-year/
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| [quote="faxcar":2cufrna3]Yep that all fits and taking one thing at a time with what we have some idea about as it stands at the moment.
We have the tax issue / resolution at the end of the month.
The Shay issue running to March.
The club ownership issue with a consortium playing an active part even though there’s been no official takeover but rumoured to be in the spring.
On the latter. Why and how they’re waiting for the spring whilst being actively involved now is a mystery to me?[/quote:2cufrna3]
No idea but , I dont know if the new sponsors ie orox are gonna be part of the consortium or not but that was the rumour and sponsors have become board members in the past . In my wishful thinking world I'm hoping if Davy foots the bill for the stadium that frees up money for the playing budget.
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| Where would Fax and Town play while the improvements are taking place?
KD says by 2026, well he needs to get a move on. Both Fax and Town can’t just up sticks and move to another ground. It all has to be approved by each sport’s governing bodies and also find clubs willing to let us use those grounds.
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| [quote="Ornery Optimist":2llqz8gd]https://www.heelanassociates.co.uk/limited-companys-financial-year-match-tax-year/[/quote:2llqz8gd]
Yep. Get the end of the tax year logic / benefits and referenced it in another post as well as discussing it privately with poster Listenup.
It was more to do with when someone doesn’t yet own the business that they can and are negotiating with other parties such as CMBC & Ken Davey both legally and professionally on a “These will be the new owners, just before, when or just after it happens basis.”
That and always concerned and nervous that the new rumoured consortium is just a rumour or will change their minds before it’s done.
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| [quote="Faxlore":13exh908]Where would Fax and Town play while the improvements are taking place?
KD says by 2026, well he needs to get a move on. Both Fax and Town can’t just up sticks and move to another ground. It all has to be approved by each sport’s governing bodies and also find clubs willing to let us use those grounds.[/quote:13exh908]
On that question this is what was said in the announcement.
Quote: “ If Mr Davy’s proposals went ahead, the new hybrid pitch at the Shay would be constructed from summer 2025, and the potential impact of this on Halifax matches is being discussed with the clubs.” End.
Just one of a million other questions.
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Matt Shaw interview with Ken Davy.
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A ... r9zuc_QlGA
Matthew Shaw (MS): Ken, thanks for your time. I do have to ask, why is it so imperative for you to leave the John Smith's Stadium in the next year or so?
Ken Davy (KD): We can stay at the John Smith's Stadium indefinitely. There is no pressure on us to leave whatsoever and we could probably stay for the next 100 years or so. But I believe quite strongly that it is the wrong size for us. If we were getting two or three times what we are getting, we would manage. But when you're only getting between four and six thousand, excellent though the stadium is, we rattle, and it's hard to get the type of atmosphere, our team, supporters and Super League deserves.
MS: Is there anything of substance regarding a home in Huddersfield yet? And I suppose the follow-up question is that if there isn't, how can you be confident of ever returning to the town?
KD: We are the Huddersfield Giants and therefore, it is our intention to build a stadium in Huddersfield. We started around three years ago now, before the new ownership of Huddersfield's football club. We identified one site that we spent a considerable amount of money on with the pre-planning work. But unfortunately, Kirklees Council redesignated the land for a different use for which a stadium wasn't on the list. That was a big disappointment and set us back 12 to 18 months.
In the last nine months or so we have been looking again much more actively and we have had two sites rejected, of which one was the old Fartown ground. The size is an issue, as is the surrounding housing and the traffic. The key thing was that under all regulations, it wasn't suitable for a 7,500-capacity stadium.
We are still looking and have two or three sites in mind and on one of them, we're almost at the pre-planning application stage. So in a nutshell, we are spending a significant amount of money trying to find an appropriate site in Huddersfield so we can have our own stadium there. It is our number one priority.
MS: What happens once you leave The Shay?
KD: I have already spoken to both clubs and assured them that there will be a buy-back option available to them once we find ourselves in that position.
KD: Initially, they had a number of queries and questions, as you would expect. We've met several times, I've been up to Harrogate to meet David Bosomworth (FC Halifax Town chairman) and a colleague and I've also met with the Panthers several times as well. I believe we have formed a very good working relationship.
MS: How does this impact the requirements of FC Halifax Town and requirements for entry to the Football League? I believe they need to have a primacy of tenancy if they are promoted.
KD: We have assured FC Halifax Town that they will have primacy of fixtures and we're well-used to working in that type of situation with Huddersfield Town, so it is a non-issue. For the Panthers, it is part of the IMG grading criteria but not a necessity and indeed, there are a number of current Super League clubs that share football stadiums with co-tenants.
MS: What happens if you don't secure a home back in Huddersfield?
KD: That isn't our intention and therefore I would consider that most unlikely.
MS: I did see a list of questions from an independent trust interested in acquiring The Shay and they asked if you had sought the views of the RFL and National League?
KD: We don't want any involvement in FC Halifax Town or Halifax Panthers, they are independent clubs. But there are no difficulties imagined there with any of the sporting bodies because what we are doing is currently taking a less-than-adequate stadium into the new era.
MS: You've mentioned the facility improvements you would like to do at The Shay which will benefit the Panthers in the long term on the IMG grading front. But will the Panthers have to move out for a period for that work to be done?
KD: The key issue is it absolutely needs a new pitch putting down. There is a desperate need because the football club has, on several occasions, had games postponed and even played games elsewhere. Clearly, if we were to move to The Shay, we would want an improved pitch. If this is going to work, a new hybrid pitch must go in this coming year.
That will cause additional disruption to the Panthers, no doubt about that. They would normally expect to leave The Shay for around six weeks for normal maintenance and this could mean double that. I have already assured the Panthers that I recognise it is a significant inconvenience to them and their supporters, so I have agreed to compensate them on an open-book accounting basis for the loss of income that they suffer.
MS: I appreciate timelines are difficult but do you have one in mind?
KD: If this is to go ahead, and going back to your point about staying at the John Smith's, we need to be in there for the 2026 season, so the work on the pitch must be done in 2025. So in a sense, I will have to take a risk in supporting the new pitch as I anticipate making interest-free loans to both clubs to get the pitch installed. Then, if it all fell through, it would take me quite some time to recover those loans.
However, the timeline for getting involved, if this were to happen, does need to be this year. It's entirely dependent on Calderdale Council, they own The Shay and it would be up to them when it took place and there are various council procedures and protocols that are important to follow. So I suppose it will be sometime this year, it could be as soon as the summer and as late as the autumn.
MS: Just lastly, I'm sure there are many supporters uneasy about leaving the town under any circumstances. What would your message be to them?
KD: Well, it's not something that is fundamentally welcome. However, I believe, and I must say the feedback from the great majority of our fans, they feel the atmosphere at The Shay will be much more appropriate to Giants rugby league matches. I am optimistic, I do understand the concerns and we will be making available transport from the John Smith's to The Shay and back again. We will be doing all we can to make it as palatable as possible and as attractive as possible for Giants fans, though we all recognise that it will be an inconvenience. But the prize of playing in a stadium of a more appropriate size and having a great atmosphere, as well as benefits for all clubs, I think will be really welcomed by the fans of all three clubs.
I will be speaking to supporters at the season-opening luncheon on January 17th, when I hope to be able to elaborate on all these points further. End of article.
One big question from all of this is with the mention of loans to both clubs is "who's paying for the pitch?"
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Matt Shaw interview with Ken Davy.
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A ... r9zuc_QlGA
Matthew Shaw (MS): Ken, thanks for your time. I do have to ask, why is it so imperative for you to leave the John Smith's Stadium in the next year or so?
Ken Davy (KD): We can stay at the John Smith's Stadium indefinitely. There is no pressure on us to leave whatsoever and we could probably stay for the next 100 years or so. But I believe quite strongly that it is the wrong size for us. If we were getting two or three times what we are getting, we would manage. But when you're only getting between four and six thousand, excellent though the stadium is, we rattle, and it's hard to get the type of atmosphere, our team, supporters and Super League deserves.
MS: Is there anything of substance regarding a home in Huddersfield yet? And I suppose the follow-up question is that if there isn't, how can you be confident of ever returning to the town?
KD: We are the Huddersfield Giants and therefore, it is our intention to build a stadium in Huddersfield. We started around three years ago now, before the new ownership of Huddersfield's football club. We identified one site that we spent a considerable amount of money on with the pre-planning work. But unfortunately, Kirklees Council redesignated the land for a different use for which a stadium wasn't on the list. That was a big disappointment and set us back 12 to 18 months.
In the last nine months or so we have been looking again much more actively and we have had two sites rejected, of which one was the old Fartown ground. The size is an issue, as is the surrounding housing and the traffic. The key thing was that under all regulations, it wasn't suitable for a 7,500-capacity stadium.
We are still looking and have two or three sites in mind and on one of them, we're almost at the pre-planning application stage. So in a nutshell, we are spending a significant amount of money trying to find an appropriate site in Huddersfield so we can have our own stadium there. It is our number one priority.
MS: What happens once you leave The Shay?
KD: I have already spoken to both clubs and assured them that there will be a buy-back option available to them once we find ourselves in that position.
KD: Initially, they had a number of queries and questions, as you would expect. We've met several times, I've been up to Harrogate to meet David Bosomworth (FC Halifax Town chairman) and a colleague and I've also met with the Panthers several times as well. I believe we have formed a very good working relationship.
MS: How does this impact the requirements of FC Halifax Town and requirements for entry to the Football League? I believe they need to have a primacy of tenancy if they are promoted.
KD: We have assured FC Halifax Town that they will have primacy of fixtures and we're well-used to working in that type of situation with Huddersfield Town, so it is a non-issue. For the Panthers, it is part of the IMG grading criteria but not a necessity and indeed, there are a number of current Super League clubs that share football stadiums with co-tenants.
MS: What happens if you don't secure a home back in Huddersfield?
KD: That isn't our intention and therefore I would consider that most unlikely.
MS: I did see a list of questions from an independent trust interested in acquiring The Shay and they asked if you had sought the views of the RFL and National League?
KD: We don't want any involvement in FC Halifax Town or Halifax Panthers, they are independent clubs. But there are no difficulties imagined there with any of the sporting bodies because what we are doing is currently taking a less-than-adequate stadium into the new era.
MS: You've mentioned the facility improvements you would like to do at The Shay which will benefit the Panthers in the long term on the IMG grading front. But will the Panthers have to move out for a period for that work to be done?
KD: The key issue is it absolutely needs a new pitch putting down. There is a desperate need because the football club has, on several occasions, had games postponed and even played games elsewhere. Clearly, if we were to move to The Shay, we would want an improved pitch. If this is going to work, a new hybrid pitch must go in this coming year.
That will cause additional disruption to the Panthers, no doubt about that. They would normally expect to leave The Shay for around six weeks for normal maintenance and this could mean double that. I have already assured the Panthers that I recognise it is a significant inconvenience to them and their supporters, so I have agreed to compensate them on an open-book accounting basis for the loss of income that they suffer.
MS: I appreciate timelines are difficult but do you have one in mind?
KD: If this is to go ahead, and going back to your point about staying at the John Smith's, we need to be in there for the 2026 season, so the work on the pitch must be done in 2025. So in a sense, I will have to take a risk in supporting the new pitch as I anticipate making interest-free loans to both clubs to get the pitch installed. Then, if it all fell through, it would take me quite some time to recover those loans.
However, the timeline for getting involved, if this were to happen, does need to be this year. It's entirely dependent on Calderdale Council, they own The Shay and it would be up to them when it took place and there are various council procedures and protocols that are important to follow. So I suppose it will be sometime this year, it could be as soon as the summer and as late as the autumn.
MS: Just lastly, I'm sure there are many supporters uneasy about leaving the town under any circumstances. What would your message be to them?
KD: Well, it's not something that is fundamentally welcome. However, I believe, and I must say the feedback from the great majority of our fans, they feel the atmosphere at The Shay will be much more appropriate to Giants rugby league matches. I am optimistic, I do understand the concerns and we will be making available transport from the John Smith's to The Shay and back again. We will be doing all we can to make it as palatable as possible and as attractive as possible for Giants fans, though we all recognise that it will be an inconvenience. But the prize of playing in a stadium of a more appropriate size and having a great atmosphere, as well as benefits for all clubs, I think will be really welcomed by the fans of all three clubs.
I will be speaking to supporters at the season-opening luncheon on January 17th, when I hope to be able to elaborate on all these points further. End of article.
One big question from all of this is with the mention of loans to both clubs is "who's paying for the pitch?"
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