Well I think Holroyd would have made difference last night.

Its not about his kicking game and putting us in good positions through that. Its about his leadership qualities on the field, and organising the team. Who was doing that last night? Absolutely no one, thats what we missed last night. An experienced player calming things down when things weren't going our way.

Holroyd was so much more to the team than someone who would put in good kicks to gain field position. He brought composure, organisation and leadership something which we didn't have las night.

I think you have a very valid point. When we were under the cosh there was no one around to take us around the field and relieve the pressure until we were more organised.

Where's govin

Where's Larder?

think larder would of done better than cherryholme and govin is class and could do a job at stand off

Different era, and different needs, but Karl Harrison was always very noticeable by his absence (we used to lose!) in the Fax team. We are missing a leader on the park.

Somebody "organising you" doesn't make you win the combat of a tackle, when a pack get a roll on you, some mouthy half back who's got awful defence himself doesn't make a blind bit of difference, sorry, disagree totally.

Its a valid point you make, they all dropped the ball, they all missed tackles...

I think the point is though it was more than that, our attacking line was flat, we were walking onto the ball and dropping wet flat hurried ball, piling pressure on ourselves, we were gobbing off at the ref, we were making the wrong choices, there was no discipline, no structure and we lost our heads, and why did we lose the collision and get slowed? Heads not on, nobody with the brain to see what was happening, hence a smart rugby brain leader is required, all the best sides have them, always have, someone who stands up and controls a game and fires people up, or calms them down, someone who can read the game.

Not sure about Calland and Hall being so far away from the touch line, someone should be screaming at them. One of them needs to be in ear shot. Having plenty of data for the next training session comes secondary to the game your in. They cant influence anything at the back of the stand.

We've been saying this for along time. When things are going wrong on the pitch either calland or hall should be on the touchline barking his orders at them. I also think it shows they care as much as us fans do (not that im saying they dont) but to see some passion on the touch line would be nice.

I dont think they will admit they are wrong on this one now, they probably look at the top sides getting away with it, but forget 'they are top sides'
Players at our level need a rocket up the arris from time to time, thats why they are playing in our league.
Too see Cullen gesturing on the touchline and his players carrying out orders and working to a 'Plan' was excellent. i take my hat off to them...

Back to the question though, Dave Wrench would have done a good job on Friday, old school RL was required.

Cullen sat up in the stands when he first came here and it was only when a fan suggested that he should be down on the dug out when we were getting battered by Gateshead that he moved down there. He's never sat in the stands since.

MC should be nearer to the action when things are not going well, he iwould be better placed to interact directly with the players and get changes made quicker.

The coaches have a perfectly good radio system that they currently use and Hall and Gonzales could still observe from way back and take appropriate notes like the already do to pass on when necessary.

It a leader/captain on the pitch we are missing. Penky is a not captain he is a good player, however he doesnt have captain material and i was very surprised when he was appointed captain. I do think that when larder is on the pitch he is the one who is the leader, and when he isnt on we do miss him. it was very noticable last friday that the person who was getting the most frustrated was our captain, which indirectly affected his performance and he was completely inaffective. We need someone to bark the orders at the players, i can always remember Karl Harrison at Thrum Hall when we had just let in a try, he didnt half rip into them.

Calland and Hall have done a great job to get us back competing, i think were just a little alarmed as they will be that since Castleford our performances have been patchy, even the games we won i.e Doncaster was poor, Gateshead was poor, Sheffield was poor, Widnes Poor, Fev poor, Widnes again poor, Barrow was ok, Leigh was ok, Toulouse was brilliant. We started the season so well, and i want MC and MH to be picking up winners medals, this isnt a one result knee jerk reaction, its a side thats lost and got to find its way again, im right behind them. Not missed a game all year, wont miss a game this year either...
Apologies if it seems bad, but we know we can do better and win this, we have just become complacent and stopped being ruthless.

Hes done a great job at Batley just by breathing fire and getting them to do their best..

Top post Cullen talks a good game and thats where it ends,Wire fans will tell you that he has S.L. loan players for the results of late.As for needing Holly Swinton are not exactly setting their division alight. KEEP THE FAITH.

It's tough at the top eh Matt?

It's not like Halifax would go down that route is it?

Wash your mouth out lad.

He certainly gave your coach a master class in the art of coaching on Friday night. Where were the answers from Calland?

IMO Cullen is a better coach than Calland. Its slightly unfair to compare the two given their disparity in experience, but thats my opinion as things stand.
Most people remember Cullen for his poor last couple of seasons at Warrington. He actually started of pretty decently with the Wire, then obviously went badly stale. He also did a very good job up at Whitehaven before making the step up to SL.
Calland was most unwise in making many of quotes to the press. The guy only heaped pressure on his own players and made himself look a bit of an arrogant twerp, especially as your form tailed off a bit soon aftert they were made.
He may well be a good coach, we'll see, but as yet he hasn't really proven himself yet. He 's also lucky to have a top quality 'assistant' in Martin Hall. How much input does HE actually have into your on-field going on?
So, purely thanks to his experience at the top level of the game (wasn't he England coach too?) and in the lower leagues, its got to be Cullen for me. Calland may well overtake him in time.

call yourself bulldog i dont think so what youon about cullen is widnes get behind our lads instead

what u on about, read the very good post , and allso see where bulldog is from, why should he get behind ower lads,??

he is only putting what he thinks which eveyone as a right to do

Cullen has more experience. He also has more money at his disposal and probably better training facilities. Matt comes out with some silly comments sometimes likely due to him being inexperienced. I do not think you can compare coaches at different clubs as each club is totally different in the way Training facilities are, what players and talent he has at his disposal, what the coaching team is like both in experience and talent.
For me when I listen to Cullen on Sky I switch off often after a couple of minutes as he just seems to make a basic point but then waffle on about it and what potentially is a good point to make it lost on me. Maybe he is different in training and a good coach. His record for me at wire is OK but nothing great. He started off well and Wire must thank him they stayed up. But he reached his limits and with the players and money he had he simply was poor and no wonder he went. I do not think he is a good SL coach like John Kear or Brian Mcdermott who for me do fantastic jobs with the limited resources they often have. However I think he is a good coach at this level.

Why everyone bothered about the widnes coach?Worry about fax and you be at the grand final have faith.