[quote="Listenup94":2yde7s26]Best form of advertising is performance on the field and whilst the attendance was poor those watching on tv who are on the fence may have been persuaded to commit a bit more.[/quote:2yde7s26] Very true but they would still have to know when there's a game taking place.

[quote="Hudd-Shay":13h05ekj]Very true but they would still have to know when there's a game taking place.[/quote:13h05ekj] Well if they were watching on TV as he mentioned they must have done.

So there is a hardcore fan base of 700-800 people that will go regardless of marketing or pricing, it has been integrated into their way of life and part of their normal routine to attend games. There’s probably about another 1000 fair-weather fans who are influenced by on field performance and other mitigating circumstances in their personal life. I don’t believe that physical marketing has a place in modern day rugby league and certainly in this instance given our financial predicament, financial, the reward for commitment is not a viable marketing strategy(for example I’m not a massive fan of Chinese food, it doesn’t matter how many leaflets get posted about discounted Chinese food I am still not going to get a Chinese). As far as I’m aware there are at least 2 people who regularly visit schools targeting a more agreeable market. As I’ve mentioned before the only marketing strategy we need to do is attaching the club to other businesses and ventures that are part of people’s daily life/routine so gyms, swimming pools, cinemas, eateries ect. I think we need more enhanced media marketing on socials.

I don't think performance on the field is nearly as important as we want to believe. Go back all the way to 98 when we could only attract 5k for a semi final play off game against Saints when we had the best team we had in 10 years. Even recently when we look at '21 and '22 with teams that finished 3rd we couldn't get higher than a 1.7k average. What we do have is a large gap in the age demographics for our average attendance, its not rocket science just take a look around at the next game. People in the ages 16 to maybe 40 or so are in the minority, we have entire generations missing from the fan base and this needs to be the target which needs a large improvement. I mentioned on the other thread that we do a great job with the junior section and work with the community clubs and that has been going on for years but it has not transfered over in to bums on seats when those juniors become young adults. The club needs to address the reason why and a lot of it will come down to pricing. "Rugby League is a family sport".......yet in the areas the game is played most people can't afford to take their families to a game. Not just a Fax issue but it does affect us directly. Despite the talk in the other thread I am not a huge fan of fylers/posters for the reason that LU mentions in that it mainly won't appeal to anyone with no interest in the sport. That said in Halifax we must have a lot of people that have either been to games or know about the club, so in that sense having posters up might just remind them and keep the club in their mind. As mentioned also if you can work a way to get that advertising for nothing then its really a no brainer and TF is bang on when he says it is about brand awareness and at the moment the Fax brand is in the gutter, we are a begging bowl club, you see the Fax logo and you wonder what the bad news is or how they are trying to get money out of you. That will take a long time to change but it has to start somewhere. The fact we could not even muster 500-600 paying fans through the gate for a game against a top SL team is appalling which ever way we want to look at it, its the worst draw possible without a doubt, but its not the oppositions responsibility to get people through the gate. That ground should have been rocking yesterday especially with that performance. The club needs some big changes, we look to have a pretty decent team on the field this season, so in my opinion the changes need to start upstairs.

[quote="Listenup94":2houjr0e]So there is a hardcore fan base of 700-800 people that will go regardless of marketing or pricing, it has been integrated into their way of life and part of their normal routine to attend games. There’s probably about another 1000 fair-weather fans who are influenced by on field performance and other mitigating circumstances in their personal life. I don’t believe that physical marketing has a place in modern day rugby league and certainly in this instance given our financial predicament, financial, the reward for commitment is not a viable marketing strategy(for example I’m not a massive fan of Chinese food, it doesn’t matter how many leaflets get posted about discounted Chinese food I am still not going to get a Chinese). As far as I’m aware there are at least 2 people who regularly visit schools targeting a more agreeable market. As I’ve mentioned before the only marketing strategy we need to do is attaching the club to other businesses and ventures that are part of people’s daily life/routine so gyms, swimming pools, cinemas, eateries ect. I think we need more enhanced media marketing on socials.[/quote:2houjr0e] Interesting to see / know from the few banging on about posters / flyers etc how many did the following. 1. Attend the game they knew about from other platforms? 2. Invite someone else to attend the game? 3. How many who were invited actually came along? The 3rd point will answer the effectiveness for those not interested or with more important issues to deal with. And if there not doing the first 2 then it’s a bit hypocritical to rip into others who are doing far more than they are in other areas when they themselves are doing nothing apart from moan. They talk about advertising, imaging and the message being sent out. I wonder if they ever stop to think what sort of advertisement, image and message they are sending out to any potential interested parties? Every year, year after year it’s the board, the coach, the players etc etc and there out early this year even before the regular season had started over a poster. Sad and pathetic. No doubt the 3 moanateers will rally round liking the others post in some attempt to justify it but not surprisingly I won’t be one of them.

Back on thread if we play as good as yesterday we will beat Barrow (and Sheffield next week).

In my opinion having watched the game on TV, I’ll say we did well in defence, conceded minimal penalties and looked fitter at this stage of the season than we have in a while, however that only goes so far to securing a win. My view was we looked a bit clueless and panicky in the attacking 20 and I honestly think we could still be playing now and still not have a try on the board. As I said, just my opinion based on what I saw, and happy to be proved wrong

[quote="4everfax":89m3o76g]In my opinion having watched the game on TV, I’ll say we did well in defence, conceded minimal penalties and looked fitter at this stage of the season than we have in a while, however that only goes so far to securing a win. My view was we looked a bit clueless and panicky in the attacking 20 and I honestly think we could still be playing now and still not have a try on the board. As I said, just my opinion based on what I saw, and happy to be proved wrong[/quote:89m3o76g] That would be about how I saw it as well. I think off season focus has been on D and it showed. Some individual flashes in attack. I would have forgiven the lads for not turning up given all the crap that has gone on but effort and commitment was 100%. Having said that, Catalans were bloody awful. Could they not get up for this game or has Steve Mac got a problem?

[quote="Greg Florimos Boots":20jnfxzr] The fact we could not even muster 500-600 paying fans through the gate for a game against a top SL team is appalling which ever way we want to look at it, its the worst draw possible without a doubt, but its not the oppositions responsibility to get people through the gate. That ground should have been rocking yesterday especially with that performance. The club needs some big changes, we look to have a pretty decent team on the field this season, so in my opinion the changes need to start upstairs.[/quote:20jnfxzr] Last season's cup game against Cats attracted 1,811 despite a poor start to the season, so shall we ask the missing thousand why they didn't attend this time round? Well, I am one of those who were missing. Why? The silly noon KO on a Saturday didn't help, especially when I didn't really get to know until fairly late due to the lack of a poster/flyer telling me when the match was taking place! But primarily it's because I refuse to pay over 20 quid to attend - I have drawn a line. So if it's the club's policy going forward not to offer the usual advance discount then this could be the first season (covid excepted - can't remember if we played in 2020?) since I first started supporting Fax in '79 that I won't attend a match.

[quote="Tony Fax":1puc2ajr]Last season's cup game against Cats attracted 1,811 despite a poor start to the season, so shall we ask the missing thousand why they didn't attend this time round? Well, I am one of those who were missing. Why? The silly noon KO on a Saturday didn't help, especially when I didn't really get to know until fairly late due to the lack of a poster/flyer telling me when the match was taking place! But primarily it's because I refuse to pay over 20 quid to attend - I have drawn a line. So if it's the club's policy going forward not to offer the usual advance discount then this could be the first season (covid excepted - can't remember if we played in 2020?) since I first started supporting Fax in '79 that I won't attend a match.[/quote:1puc2ajr] So by your own admission you didn't attend because of the price as opposed to the leaflet distribution, just out of interest what's your age demographic. I didn't attend either for multiple reasons, batley charged ten pound admission a couple of seasons ago and that had no impact on attendance levels either , but having said that do I think that it's too expensive but I also think butter , olive oil , c tax , utility bills , rent, petrol are too expensive. I dont think cutting the cost of admission 20 % would impact attendance enough for it to be financially viable.

https://amzn.eu/d/bqL2stf All sorted lads and it’s only £14

https://amzn.eu/d/bqL2stf All sorted lads and it’s only £14

That has always been the big problem, to drop admission the crowds have to go up(I think this is why Fax charged full price for the Cats game as they didn't expect a rise in attendance with cheaper tickets) and as LU mentions the Batley experiment didn't work. Its just so hard to pinpoint one exact reason why people don't attend as it's usually a combination of things. Like a family of 3 or 4 could be paying out maybe around £150 or more for a couple of homes games in a month and that is a lot of money around here where money is tight and there are a lot of other things to do. For some it is simply frustration of how the club has been ran over the years. I couldn't even get rid of cheap tickets for this game for people who have attended regular in the last couple of years, too cold, don't want to watch their team get hammered, fed up with RL in general, these were the gist of reasons I heard. It is hard to know what the answer is but if questions are not asked after that sort of attendance then it might be time to just sack it off.

I think it's more of an rl problem than a fax problem, I think the essence of what rl stood for as been removed by greed and removal of hope and jeopardy. I watched the Bradford v cas game today and enjoyed it has a neutral , on the flip side when I went to Wembley to watch fax vs batley I paid little attention to the leigh v hull kr game. Certain clubs seemed to have stagnated regardless, not sure on the stats but attendances seem to be at best levelling off across the board.

[i:1c1s4q3n]Greg Quote. That has always been the big problem, to drop admission the crowds have to go up(I think this is why Fax charged full price for the Cats game as they didn't expect a rise in attendance with cheaper tickets) and as LU mentions the Batley experiment didn't work. Its just so hard to pinpoint one exact reason why people don't attend as it's usually a combination of things. Like a family of 3 or 4 could be paying out maybe around £150 or more for a couple of homes games in a month and that is a lot of money around here where money is tight and there are a lot of other things to do. For some it is simply frustration of how the club has been ran over the years. I couldn't even get rid of cheap tickets for this game for people who have attended regular in the last couple of years, too cold, don't want to watch their team get hammered, fed up with RL in general, these were the gist of reasons I heard. It is hard to know what the answer is but if questions are not asked after that sort of attendance then it might be time to just sack it off. End. LU Quote: I think it's more of an rl problem than a fax problem, I think the essence of what rl stood for as been removed by greed and removal of hope and jeopardy. I watched the Bradford v cas game today and enjoyed it has a neutral , on the flip side when I went to Wembley to watch fax vs batley I paid little attention to the leigh v hull kr game. Certain clubs seemed to have stagnated regardless, not sure on the stats but attendances seem to be at best levelling off across the board. End.[/i:1c1s4q3n] BLEEDING HELL. Posts not mentioning posters and not blaming the club for everything at last making sense!!

Batleys 10 quid experiment actually worked with their crowds more than doubling, I've no idea why they didn't follow it through. I'm a mathematical genius and I calculate the optitimum entrance fee as being 12 quid which would create the greatest returns. We need to have someone with the nous to take the club forward. I would still love to know why Kenny resigned saying he did so because he didn't agree with the direction of the club. What direction didn't you agree with Kenny?

[quote="Tony Fax":1ghlllbg]Batleys 10 quid experiment actually worked with their crowds more than doubling, I've no idea why they didn't follow it through. I'm a mathematical genius and I calculate the optitimum entrance fee as being 12 quid which would create the greatest returns. We need to have someone with the nous to take the club forward. I would still love to know why Kenny resigned saying he did so because he didn't agree with the direction of the club. What direction didn't you agree with Kenny?[/quote:1ghlllbg] What year did batley do their offer, was it 2023? If so it looks like they only averaged about 100 or so more on the previous season and then crowds actually went up last year which is strange if it was 2024 that they went back to full price. Its a bit of a catch 22 of offering cheap tickets as they often end up in the hands of people who were going to attend anyway.

Halving the price of admission would require us doubling our attendance which has previously mentioned even when successful our average was 1800 , given there's only 3/4 teams that bring a healthy away following and where in the middle of a financial crisis would be suicide. As regards Lee kenny I have no idea but given he's a marketing man I only remember him arranging a convoy to wakefield which was to be polite one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.

I watched the second half on Youtube, would have watched the first but as I was on holiday, decided to go and watch the sunrise on the beach and in fairness I thought kick off was half 12 so would have time to do both. My lad was texting me saying we were playing well, and from what I saw second half I'd agree. Catalans are a decent side who will be towards the top of SL this season, We've complained for a few seasons now about shoddy defence so good to see it has been shored up. Just need to start putting more points on the board now. Based on what I saw on Saturday, I am now seriously contemplating going to Sheffield on Sunday, whereas before I wasn't, although I did think it was a Friday night fixture as well. But my lad has already made plans to go and watch the Giants with a couple of mates having also thought it was on Friday, so now he is split on what to do. He's been watching fax since he was tiny, but goes to as many Hudds games as he does Fax, not because he massively supports them but because they are in SL and he can watch better players in a better competition. A number of his mates from Siddal will watch both teams as well. We're only going to attract so many folk while in the Championship, and with no route to SL, its going to be very hard to attract more

[quote="Brew":3cisoolc]I watched the second half on Youtube, would have watched the first but as I was on holiday, decided to go and watch the sunrise on the beach and in fairness I thought kick off was half 12 so would have time to do both. My lad was texting me saying we were playing well, and from what I saw second half I'd agree. Catalans are a decent side who will be towards the top of SL this season, We've complained for a few seasons now about shoddy defence so good to see it has been shored up. Just need to start putting more points on the board now. Based on what I saw on Saturday, I am now seriously contemplating going to Sheffield on Sunday, whereas before I wasn't, although I did think it was a Friday night fixture as well. But my lad has already made plans to go and watch the Giants with a couple of mates having also thought it was on Friday, so now he is split on what to do. He's been watching fax since he was tiny, but goes to as many Hudds games as he does Fax, not because he massively supports them but because they are in SL and he can watch better players in a better competition. A number of his mates from Siddal will watch both teams as well. We're only going to attract so many folk while in the Championship, and with no route to SL, its going to be very hard to attract more[/quote:3cisoolc] As has been stated before, our own club voted for this IMG tripe and with it no promotion. How those same people then hope to keep the present fan base, never mind increase it is beyond me. P.S. What is this attraction to watching the sun rise/set? It's almost as strange as Halifax folk going to watch shuddersfield!

I know people keep mentioning no promotion as one of the reasons why our crowds are so low but even when promotion was available our crowds were not great and I reckon with a half decent season last year we would have been around the same as we had been for a couple of seasons. I think its only because we were really bad on and off the field that people started to sack it off. the problem is once people get out of the habit of going its hard to get them back but hopefully a good performance on Sunday after the catalans game and we can get a few more through the gate for Barrow.

[quote="Hudd-Shay":31vsx69w]As has been stated before, our own club voted for this IMG tripe and with it no promotion. How those same people then hope to keep the present fan base, never mind increase it is beyond me. P.S. What is this attraction to watching the sun rise/set? It's almost as strange as Halifax folk going to watch shuddersfield![/quote:31vsx69w] The 3 trick pony rides again, IMG, DR and the Club. Moan, moan, moan. The 3 mentioned make 99% of the posts contribution but complaining about someone on holiday enjoying a beach sunrise is a new one.

[quote="Greg Florimos Boots":1cljusx1]I know people keep mentioning no promotion as one of the reasons why our crowds are so low but even when promotion was available our crowds were not great and I reckon with a half decent season last year we would have been around the same as we had been for a couple of seasons. I think its only because we were really bad on and off the field that people started to sack it off. the problem is once people get out of the habit of going its hard to get them back but hopefully a good performance on Sunday after the catalans game and we can get a few more through the gate for Barrow.[/quote:1cljusx1] I reckon a win at Sheffield would add 200/300 onto the gate against Barrow.

[quote="Hudd-Shay":1ttjev99]I reckon a win at Sheffield would add 200/300 onto the gate against Barrow.[/quote:1ttjev99] Of all the things that could get the home crowd for Barrow up a win at Sheffield would no doubt be at the top of the list at least for this week.

[quote="Hudd-Shay":3k0sfnvf]I reckon a win at Sheffield would add 200/300 onto the gate against Barrow.[/quote:3k0sfnvf] I'll vouch for that. I'll be picking and choosing my matches again this season and with barrow being one of the weaker teams, that was one I was giving a miss. But I might go along if we win at the seagulls

[quote="Greg Florimos Boots":2aux0w36]What year did batley do their offer, was it 2023? [/quote:2aux0w36] i think so, but IIRC they didn't offer the discount for the entire season ...... there was a backlash from season ticket holders who were cheesed off they were basically ripped off. Was the first discounted match against York? It rings a bell because I remember seeing the crowd as around 3k, well above the average. Maybe Batley also printed posters and flyers to stimulate the extra awareness? ( ) If folk think they're getting a bargain they'll turn up. Wakey charged a tenner last season and they averaged over 5k, primarily driven by the lower charge because their fans didn't travel well re numbers ...... they brought a disappointing following to the Shay last August bank holiday despite confirming them winning the title. If Fax feel they can't offer similar reductions they need to get smarter re their pricing. Maybe grading the opposition as A, B or C and offering a 3 match ticket for £50 comprising a team from each of these categories (eg A = Bradford, B = London and C = Hunslet) which IMO would entice fans to attend the Hunslet match when they normally wouldn't. They've got to try something, they can't just sit on their hands expecting folk to rock up. It's appalling they didn't even offer an advance discount re the Catalans game.