|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 4600 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2010 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Aleydita"@faxcar I just don't understand the reasoning. You're appearing to suggest that it's better to let Fax carry on not paying the rent because the alternative is worse. I'm not sure many non-Fax fans would agree.'"
The reasoning is simple.
Others have suggested that the reason for not playing is linked to not paying, hence the quote Quote. "Fax are skint".
Others seem to take some satisfaction from anything that can be negatively said about Fax and really hope the are skint and do go bust.
Put the two together and the "Fax are skint" proves true, they go bust and that's the end.
Those who are happy about this are then left with just one club playing out of the Shay with the bigger shortfall I mentioned with the same problems as before and possibly a weaker position themselves.
Just one point would be for CMBC to consider is can they justify losing £250,000 and rising on a sports stadium that hosts one club with a following of say 1500 people when they are having to make cut backs in other important areas.
This Fax "Hate" number comes down to a couple of dozen people at best who claim the Shay is a community asset and that they speak for the rest of the population of Calderdale.
They don't want the truth they just want to see Fax fail in anyway possible.
The fact is no one on here or away from HLRLFC and CMBC actually knows the truth.
Another fact is HRLFC will have to pay the rent or they won't be playing there and with no ground they will be out of business.
How hard is that to reason out.
The question / concerns about this have been going on for months.
Once a question / concern has been raised, that must eventually be resolved, in this case (paying any rent due) what is the point of keep going over and over the same subject.
Again, sooner or later it will be resolved one way or the other, it will be paid or Fax will be out of business.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 28 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Nov 2011 | 13 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2014 | Feb 2014 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| That doesn't explain why you think allowing Fax to continue not paying rent is preferable to the alternative (which is to kick us out). Where does the figure of £250k/year come from? I haven't seen this anywhere other than a claim TA made on Twitter. One of the FOI requests confirmed a 5-figure annual short-fall, which is not surprising given Fax are behind with their rent. Besides, we all know the stadium is under-utilised, a whole tier of the east stand remains unoccupied for example, and the council have admitted in another FOI that they've made no attempt to remedy this.
It isn't written in stone that The Shay has to make a loss under council ownership. The soccer club managed to pay £30k/year rent and I believe pay for their own staff to look after the pitch, but as with everything it costs more when there's a council involved. I wonder how many staff are employed in relation to the Shay today as opposed to 20 years ago, and whether or not those positions are actually justified in the cold light of day.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Owner | 4335 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2004 | 21 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2022 | Nov 2021 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
Moderator
|
| Quote ="Aleydita"Yeah because the FOI requests are full of lies. Because TA didn't lie. Because MS didn't lie. The only rumour is the catering debt which I explicitly identified as such. Me thinks you failed in your attempt to be a smart-ass.'"
Fine the FOI may be correct but you know naff all about the rest.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 28 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Nov 2011 | 13 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2014 | Feb 2014 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| TA said he wasn't involved in any pay-day loan companies. FACT: He's a director of several.
MS said he knew someone had bid to buy the Shay but didn't know who. FACT: MS and TA talk.
One of the FOI requests said the rugby club agreed to pay in full by 31/12/13. FACT: They didn't.
Several people who claim to know the catering company's owner have separately claimed that Fax owe them 5-figures. RUMOUR.
The denial around here is extreme.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 6698 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2009 | 15 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2017 | Feb 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Faxcar, I won't repeat all your post to saves space, but, basically well put.
As I have been saying for a while it's a topic going nowhere, it has been done to death off thread on three other topics, let's wait and see. We don't have the answers and I agree it's very emotive, but I'm confident it is being dealt with.
Peace.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 28 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Nov 2011 | 13 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2014 | Feb 2014 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| I'm happy to wait and see also, it's not like we have much choice I suppose. But it's fair to say I'm worried, if not the Shay then where? Odsal? Do me a favour. I hope this is sorted soon.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 4600 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2010 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Aleydita"That doesn't explain why you think allowing Fax to continue not paying rent is preferable to the alternative (which is to kick us out).
I clearly said Fax will have to pay the rent or have no ground to play on and go out of business, they will not be allowed to continue not to pay it and if they can't pay it for the Shay they can't pay it anywhere else, if that doesn't explain it nothing will.
What no one knows is WHY it hasn't been paid but some jump to negative conclusions based on how their opinion of anything Fax related.
Others just do not think it is as bad as the doom and gloom guys because it contradicts a number of things which can be clearly seen the club are factually doing.
"Where does the figure of £250k/year come from?"
It was stated in the Courier some time back that the Shay was losing at least £250k per year and rising just to maintain the place.
Fax should pay the rent and when they do the shortfall will be reduce accordingly but it will still be significantly in the red as an entity.
It being a financial liability in tough economic times is why the Council first thought about selling it in the first place.
"As above we all know the stadium is under-utilised, a whole tier of the east stand remains unoccupied for example, and the council have admitted in another FOI that they've made no attempt to remedy this."
Regardless of the financial standing of Fax the Council will never will be able to remedy anything at the Shay because they are skint and that is a fact.
"It isn't written in stone that The Shay has to make a loss under council ownership."
Truthfully do you think the Council has it in them to use the Shay as a commercial venture, that's business, they may be a lot of things but they are not businessmen.
As you say all we can do is wait and see at least we've had some debate.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 2572 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Nov 2005 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2017 | Nov 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Can anyone offer an opinion as to what sort of dispute
with the council could justify the action of not paying £63k
rent over a 16 month period ?
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 4600 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2010 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="mr t hall"Can anyone offer an opinion as to what sort of dispute
with the council could justify the action of not paying £63k
rent over a 16 month period ?'"
Anything said has likely been said before and mostly guess work based on all the spin that has being going on with a few smatterings of so called factual information mixed in.
We're guessing again that it involves a dispute which may be part of it and maybe not.
A few of the things supposedly been involved.
Some rent was owed for before the talk of buying the Shay came to light.
The talks included the rent being absorbed into any purchasing agreement.
Not too long ago the deal for the Shay was taken from the table at least in the short term.
Both parties went of to give more consideration to the potential sale.
Could the deal be back on again after due process with similar terms for the rent included.
Now that would explain the silence and will get a certain section going again
Total speculation but the above was part of the original plan so is feasible.
Other than that, again we are either skint and can't pay it.
We are not skint and won't pay it.
In either case.
To continue playing from the Shay or anywhere else we will have to pay it.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 2572 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Nov 2005 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2017 | Nov 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="faxcar"Anything said has likely been said before and mostly guess work based on all the spin that has being going on with a few smatterings of so called factual information mixed in.
We're guessing again that it involves a dispute which may be part of it and maybe not.
A few of the things supposedly been involved.
Some rent was owed for before the talk of buying the Shay came to light.
The talks included the rent being absorbed into any purchasing agreement.
Not too long ago the deal for the Shay was taken from the table at least in the short term.
Both parties went of to give more consideration to the potential sale.
Could the deal be back on again after due process with similar terms for the rent included.
Now that would explain the silence and will get a certain section going again
Total speculation but the above was part of the original plan so is feasible.
Other than that, again we are either skint and can't pay it.
We are not skint and won't pay it.
In either case.
To continue playing from the Shay or anywhere else we will have to pay it.'"
Thanks,so only really the Shay potential sale could justify our actions.
I'm trying to be positive but surely the possible Shay purchase came long
after arrears had already built up ?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 18789 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2002 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Sep 2023 | Mar 2018 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| When does Gavin's daft Asset of Community Value (ACV) run out? Is it six months from the date of his application or six months from the date Calderdale Council decide to sell?
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 2572 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Nov 2005 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2017 | Nov 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| It's six months after the council decide to sell.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 4600 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2010 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="mr t hall"Thanks,so only really the Shay potential sale could justify our actions.
I'm trying to be positive but surely the possible Shay purchase came long
after arrears had already built up ?'"
They did but it is the only connection with the former and current situation.
I know you are concerned and that unlike some others is why the question is being asked.
Those who can answer it aren't doing so for whatever reason.
They are the only ones who can.
There is no point in beating ourselves up over something we don't really know about or can do anything about.
At times like this I go back to core beliefs and values.
Fax almost had a perfect storm of a bad year last season regarding games and crowds, early cup exits etc.
They didn't like it or want it to happen but they prepared for it and took it on the chin.
I just do not believe that the club is in the financial mess some are saying.
I do not believe the current BOD for no reason or any reason will do anything to harm the club.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 28 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Nov 2011 | 13 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2014 | Feb 2014 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| So the £250k/year figure came from the Courier. And I wonder who gave them that. The FOI shows this figure was absolute ball-cocks yet you choose to believe it rather than the black and white figures given by the council.
The thing is, the club originally wanted to include the rent in the deal to buy the stadium, despite it being the club owing the rent and TA being the one hoping to buy - two separate entities which makes this just plain daft. Furthermore, when the sale didn't happen, the club then agreed to pay in full by 31/12/13.
So if there was any dispute at all, why would they look to pay it off as part of the deal to buy the Shay, and why would they later agree a date by which to pay it in full? There is no dispute, or if there is it's been manufactured recently in order to justify continued non-payment.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 5633 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="littlerich"When does Gavin's daft Asset of Community Value (ACV) run out? Is it six months from the date of his application or six months from the date Calderdale Council decide to sell?'"
5 years from the ACV being granted.
Lets be clear about a few things. The Council were never close to agreeing a deal to sell the Shay to Tony Abbott. The reason being that they had no deal to consider given that all they had received was a single piece of A4 paper containing a couple of paragraphs.
Tim Swift said on numerous occasions on Twitter, and in emails, that there was no sale of the Shay on the horizon which totally contradicted the rhetoric coming from Mr "A deal will be concluded within the next few weeks" Abbott. From the meetings I held with the three main party leaders within the Town Hall there is/was no desire to sell the stadium though there remains concern about the ongoing subsidy required - not helped by the rental arrears.
The public meeting held to "reassure" people over the potential purchase seriously damaged any opportunity which may have developed. False claims of not being involved in the payday loan business and the clouded response over how a purchase would be funded quite rightly set the alarm bells ringing. There were also concerns about some of the other claims such as the potential hotel and the fact that viability studies have shown that there is no demand for another hotel within the town centre.
The Council clearly shared the concerns of the football club and the supporters over the stadium falling into private ownership and the risks which short and long term this would pose. And these are concerns which should be shared by supporters of HRLFC just like in 2006.
What I think we would all agree on is that the Shay is not even close to maximising its potential - something which Tony Abbott is well aware of. But this is why it is important to find a solution where a stadium maximising its potential works for the local taxpayer and two sporting clubs rather than for a private owner.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 2143 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2006 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2024 | Oct 2019 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Bubba"5 years from the ACV being granted.
Lets be clear about a few things. The Council were never close to agreeing a deal to sell the Shay to Tony Abbott. The reason being that they had no deal to consider given that all they had received was a single piece of A4 paper containing a couple of paragraphs.
Tim Swift said on numerous occasions on Twitter, and in emails, that there was no sale of the Shay on the horizon which totally contradicted the rhetoric coming from Mr "A deal will be concluded within the next few weeks" Abbott. From the meetings I held with the three main party leaders within the Town Hall there is/was no desire to sell the stadium though there remains concern about the ongoing subsidy required - not helped by the rental arrears.
The public meeting held to "reassure" people over the potential purchase seriously damaged any opportunity which may have developed. False claims of not being involved in the payday loan business and the clouded response over how a purchase would be funded quite rightly set the alarm bells ringing. There were also concerns about some of the other claims such as the potential hotel and the fact that viability studies have shown that there is no demand for another hotel within the town centre.
The Council clearly shared the concerns of the football club and the supporters over the stadium falling into private ownership and the risks which short and long term this would pose. And these are concerns which should be shared by supporters of HRLFC just like in 2006.
What I think we would all agree on is that the Shay is not even close to maximising its potential - something which Tony Abbott is well aware of. But this is why it is important to find a solution where a stadium maximising its potential works for the local taxpayer and two sporting clubs rather than for a private owner.'"
Has the FOOTBALL CLUB directors ever made a public statement about not being in favour of PRIVATE ownership?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 45 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Nov 2013 | 11 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2014 | Feb 2014 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Cassandra"Has the FOOTBALL CLUB directors ever made a public statement about not being in favour of PRIVATE ownership?'"
Completely irrelevant.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 4064 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2002 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Dec 2023 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Just one point on the continuous accusations by the FCHT lot that TA lied about Reactiv and Payday Loans.
I was at the meeting and, as I remember it, He actually said "Reactiv Media never has been and never will be a Payday Loan Company".
I believe this could be true. Reactiv runs a Call Centre facility which is available for use by any company wishing to use it's services. It is not up to Reactiv to take the moral high ground. They are in business to make money and Payday Loans, whilst distasteful, are not illegal under current legislation. So, not a lie maybe? Just a politician's answer.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 45 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Nov 2013 | 11 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2014 | Feb 2014 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Fax Machine"Just one point on the continuous accusations by the FCHT lot that TA lied about Reactiv and Payday Loans.
I was at the meeting and, as I remember it, He actually said "Reactiv Media never has been and never will be a Payday Loan Company".
I believe this could be true. Reactiv runs a Call Centre facility which is available for use by any company wishing to use it's services. It is not up to Reactiv to take the moral high ground. They are in business to make money and Payday Loans, whilst distasteful, are not illegal under current legislation. So, not a lie maybe? Just a politician's answer.'"
A bare faced lie, I was there, I heard it along with many other people.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 16601 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2002 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2024 | Nov 2023 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Two Shay"A bare faced lie, I was there, I heard it along with many other people.'"
or heard what you wished to hear, as an outsider how much do the soccer club pay to rent the stadium as £30k pa was posted previously?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 4064 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2002 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Dec 2023 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| So, come on then Two Shay, what were his exact words?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 4064 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2002 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Dec 2023 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| If FCHT are charged 30k per annum then why are Fax expected to pay considerably more for half as many games?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 93 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jun 2013 | 12 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Apr 2017 | Apr 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="maurice"or heard what you wished to hear, as an outsider how much do the soccer club pay to rent the stadium as £30k pa was posted previously?'"
spot on. can always rely on football fans to take an open minded approach
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 45 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Nov 2013 | 11 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2014 | Feb 2014 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Fax Machine"So, come on then Two Shay, what were his exact words?'"
Dont be ridiculous, I did not take a recording but I did hear him deny having anything to do with pay day loans along with many others including councillors. He also said he could only buy The Shay with borrowed money.
Thank God the council finally saw the light.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 4064 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2002 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Dec 2023 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| True. I've lost count of the number of times FCHT fans have referred to Michael Steele rubbing his hands with glee when the football club were in danger of disappearing at the prospect of Fax getting the stadium to themselves. Pure imagination. I remember it like it was yesterday. IT NEVER HAPPENED!!!
|
|
|
|
|