They are far from self sustaining, if they didn't have Steve O'Connor they would've gone bust the year before last after making a 500k loss. That is not self sustaining. Steve O'Connor has said he wants them to be challenging at the top of SL. To do that they would need to spend even more than Warrington have in the last few years. You cant do that on crowds double Widnes's average attendance from last year. What happens when he spends and spends without cracking the top four or five teams. Simon Moran did at Warrington for years until Tony Smith came along. Do the RFL expect the same perseverance from someone who only been involved for two years.

If you accept the 500 K loss , then you accept the million pound profit , the year after , Yes Mr O Connor has stated he wants to be competitive from the start , and if they are , they will be close to the ' golden ' 10,000 average to break even

There is no doubt , that to prosper it does help if you have somebody with more money than sense , but a decent support base also is a necessity , and Widnes have got that

Do you not think they would need to find another 5000 spectators to average near 10,000 ?.

There are very good sounds coming out of Fax recently but as VM said basically your playing catch up!

Big new main sponsor - Done that and now brining in big other names.
New stand - Stadium already state of the art & improving gantry for SKY currently!
Possible U23'S - Do that, 16's & 18's already (& very good!).
2500 crowds - Been above that for many a year now.

Funny how Fax always bang on about a main backer yet as soon as this Probiz guy show's an interest suddenly it's look at what we could achieve now due to him

In 3 years from now if you keep building you could be shining ahead and maybe our Leigh pal's will take up your role in the game

I have pondered about what the RFL's decision will be in march, I am not sure now. My heart says Widnes will still get it and IMO don't have a divine right to it like some people think. I do think both Halifax and Widnes are on a par as far as the applications are concerned. I know the Widnes supporters will say they have their academy sides and that ticks a box that Halifax have only just started. BUT, I believe that Halifax RLFC for about 6 years, if not longer have worked with Calderdale Collage promoted rugby league, trained youth teams held coaching sessions and helped with youth teams in the area. They also promote healthy living and exercise around the schools and up until a couple of years ago had a very successful academy team. This again IMO is better and more important than just having academy sides for the select few. If the RFL can be made to see this also along with our on field success then who knows.

Also I am a Halifax supporter who lives and works in York, I am not the only one. How many of us I don't know, I am also sure their are Halifax supporters in other towns and city;s around the country and world if we can show the RFL that support then that can only help.

Stop talking absolute carp! Can I ask this seriously...

IF WIDNES AREN'T NEAR SELF SUSTAINABLE WITHOUT O'CONNOR HOW THE FUGDE IS ANY OTHER SIDE GOING TO BE IN OUR DIVISION???

As for previous mention of Samuel, the proof is in the pudding, O'Connor is still here and is increasingly improving the club in various forms and has in the process of sealing a major deal for land to go towards a training facility for the club. Samuel sold the ground from Crusaders to line his pocket and let them get charged rent they can' afford... think it through a little bit!

Again, you where the one's saying without 200k winnings you were in a mess, also your club budgeted on going X rounds in both cup comps... Not sure what sort of high ground your trying to take here?

We know were we are at the start of 2011 thank you.

I don't think the club said we were in trouble with out the 200k it was speculation on this forum. Where would widnes be if they hadn't been given, was it 2 million gift to give them 1 million profit ? What will happen when he quits widnes and you have a mediocre team loosing more games than you win Again and the crowds fall?

So Widnes lost 1 million and you made a profit despite your major sponsor going under and on 500 less average crowds?

Again... Think about this one?

Interesting thought coming out from this thread - and a scary one. Just suppose we did get the nod in July. How the hell in God's name will we compete in SL? Unless we're backed up financially to some tune all we're ever going to do from day one is struggle to compete. It's not that I lack ambition and fortune does favour the brave but I'm not sure I want to see teams despatching us into oblivion like they did in 2003.

It will only work if we get some backing. A "Steve O'Connor" is not just a desirable commodity - it's a must!!!

This is all speculation, if we did get the nod then the whole club would have to change, at the minute we are Championship outfit with aspirations of getting to the promised land as a result we have to cut our cloth accordingly. I do not think a major backer is the answer and as a club we should be aiming to be self sufficient as a Major Backer cannot guarantee the long term security of the club.

All the noises coming out of the club are very encouraging and surely how we would compete in SL would be a nice problem to have, I just hope the RL give us a fair crack of the whip and take our bid seriously.

Add under 15s scholarship mate.Just bought the rec on liverpool road and will have more top notch facilities.Council supports widnes, and more businesses joining up with the vikings.
Stobarts have alot of contacts and once in Superleague we will get more supporters back watching the vikings.Derby games against wire,saints,wigan and now crusaders could be near sell outs.



We came 5th in the league and got better attendances than fax, so i think if we have a good season this year our attendances will increase.



Up the Vikings for Superleague.

Never understood this whole biting thing... someone posts something surely it invites comment.



Halifax are now there or thereabouts off the field (which as we all know is really where it counts this time around). However these developments are all recent. Three years commitment to these areas of improvement will count them in good stead for 2015 as it has for us since our initial knock back.

I think whilst the ink is still wet from announcing the launch of these associations, the creation of this/these youth team(s) etc etc the RFL will act cautiously.

Why would they act cautiously? They accepted licence bids from Wakefield, Castleford, St Helens, Bradford and Salford when they hadnt even put the ink on the paper (let alone still wet) for their grounds

For the very reason that they accepted licence bids from Wakefield, Castleford, Crusaders and Salford. Make no mistake, the RFL do not like to be made to look like fools and whilst they are willing to put up with the embarrasment that seems to come with the expansion sides they are less tolerant of the other clubs.

They will want to see that Fax can maintain the progress that they have made recently... but [irecently[/i is a key word in that sentence.

Difference being they don't really need excuses to ignore a champ club!

Widnes fans cry more than my 6 week old Baby daughter. And Des wont be happy that Barrow are being ignored.

You have a 6 week old daughter Neil? I never knew, you should have mentioned it on some of your comments mate.

Every single SL club relies on one or a few. A major backer is the only route to a [icompetitive[/i stint in SL.

I think he loves her nearly as much as his first love.........FAX !!!!

I cant remember mentioning her more than a couple of times on here but hey of course I am proud as punch heres hoping that I will be taking her to Super League games as she grows up.

I may be wrong here, but don't the SL teams pull £1 million a season from the RFL/sky? (perhaps someone can confirm this?)

If that is the case and the salary cap is £1.6 million in SL like last year, then surely you only need to find £600k to be up to the max?

I would imagine you were near top of the salary cap last season (either 300k or 400k I can't quite remember) in the Championship, with only £100k funding by the RFL. So you found either £2-300k to operate with much poorer gates than you would in SL. Even the most conservative of estimates would double your gate numbers from what? 2500 in the championship, to approx 5000 average in SL, just because of the proximity, travelling support would easily get you over that figure.

13 home games in SL excluding cup @ again a very conservative average of £10 (probably more) per person x the extra 2500 fans each week = £325,000 if my maths is right.
Not to mention the the extra sponsorship and merchandise sales.

So you can't be that far off being competitive, surely????

Iv'e read somewere SL clubs need a turnover of about 3 million to compete, and
The HKR chairman is on record for saying you need to average 10 thousand gates to break even.

JESUS! DIDNT MEAN TO START WORLD WAR 3!



ALL THIS SPECUALATION IS FANTASTIC.

JUST THINK IF BIG NIGE AND HIS PALS READ ALL THIS, THEN THINK,

"THIER RIGHT YOU KNOW THEM BLUE AND WHITES! THERE ISNT THAT MUCH BETWEEN FAX AND WIDNES' BIDS.......

...SO WHAT WE'LL DO IS, WHICHEVER TEAM BETWEEN FAX AND WIDNES HAVE SCORED MORE TRIES BY FEBRUARY 28TH WE SHALL ELECT AS THE CHOSEN FRANCHISE...SEE YA WAKEY"

CRYSTAL BALL I TELL YA

You'd think so wouldn't you? Why have Wakefield gone bust? Why did Celtic go bust? Why do Harlequins need propping up? There must be some other "miscellaneous" expenditure occuring at these clubs.