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| I no longer have any desire for a top 4 finish based on what i've seen this season.
Yes we may be good enough to achieve 4th but it could result in the 2003 scenario.
Much preferrable to me would be a competitive 7 games against similar standard
champoinship opponents with a resulting Grand Final.Negative or realistic ?
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| Need to finish 4th for the £400k funding for next year.
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| Quote ="mr t hall"I no longer have any desire for a top 4 finish based on what i've seen this season.
Yes we may be good enough to achieve 4th but it could result in the 2003 scenario.
Much preferrable to me would be a competitive 7 games against similar standard
champoinship opponents with a resulting Grand Final.Negative or realistic ?'"
I can't make my mind up. If we finished fourth and had the superleague teams coming for the 3 home games it would be a good pay day as they are likely to bring more fans than the lower teams in our league and the additional funding. That said I don't think we would stand much of a chance against the superleague teams and it would be nice to play against teams we have a better chance of beating.
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| Quote ="littlerich"Need to finish 4th for the £400k funding for next year.'"
Ah,that does change my perspective on things.
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| Quote ="mr t hall"Ah,that does change my perspective on things.'"
Obviously the danger is we repeat the nightmare of 2003 and the WCC and alienate fans with poor performances but i think the risk is worth it. Also, would be good to understand just how far we could be off in competing with a PT squad. It could just nudge the board into pushing harder to get a FT squad and could entice extra sponsors on board but nothing would be worth risking the future of the club for.
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| I would like us to finish in the top 4. The club would benefit from the £400K (I didn't know about this until reading the above) but we as fans are realistic and at this stage wouldn't be expecting us to beat SL teams. The problem with last few season is that we expected to beat teams in our league and we didn't compete in the paly offs which left a sour taste.
Take last Friday I went to Wakefield not expecting a win. We didn't, but I left the game feeling that we had tested ourselves and gave a very good account of ourselves and didn't feel disappointed. I think it will be like that if we make the top 4. Be realistic in our results expectations, more money for the club and SL teams playing at the Shay.
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| I can't believe we're even discussing this!
This is sport and our aim should be to ALWAYS finish as high as possible, to go out to win every single game and be as competitive as possible. Anything else is not acceptable.
If we do that then we, as fans, should be happy. I certainly would be because if the team, the BOD and the fans have given their all then we can expect no more and we will continue to progress as a club.
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| Strange this is even up for debate. We've had plenty of seasons aspiring to play in a grand final, which although a fantastic day out doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. I'd take 4th spot any day. It means extra cash, a buzz around the town, a chance to test our arm against the 'best', a great message to talk to potential playing recruits about, and you know what... the slimmest of chances we could do something extraordinary (it's not the probability of this happening that's important, just knowing that we can dream 'what if...?')
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| Quote ="littlerich"Obviously the danger is we repeat the nightmare of 2003 and the WCC and alienate fans with poor performances but i think the risk is worth it. Also, would be good to understand just how far we could be off in competing with a PT squad. It could just nudge the board into pushing harder to get a FT squad and could entice extra sponsors on board but nothing would be worth risking the future of the club for.'"
Aim for the Sky Rich,be positive.
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| What is the prize money for 5th?
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| Quote ="charlie caroli"Aim for the Sky Rich,be positive.'"
Well done to Leythers and fair comments from fellow posters.
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| I'm trying (as we all should be) to entice past fans back to sample the current fare.The three occasions i've managed this,this,season we have been comfortably beaten.The prospect of seven beatings in middle 8s is hardly likely to attract new supporters.sorry the ghosts of 97 and 2003 still prevail in my negative mindset !
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| Finishing in the top 4 gives an indicator of where the club is at and what gap needs to be further closed. The following mini league gives an idea of what can be achieved by a part time squad and whether there is a desire to go full time more quickly, or employ a reasonable balance of full time players. Can't see much delight in winning the minor competition. In this case there is much to be learned from the middle eights, even in defeat. It also might make club more attractive to potential recruits...........or drive existing good players away if ambition is missing.
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| Quote ="Fax Machine"I can't believe we're even discussing this!
This is sport and our aim should be to ALWAYS finish as high as possible, to go out to win every single game and be as competitive as possible. Anything else is not acceptable.
If we do that then we, as fans, should be happy. I certainly would be because if the team, the BOD and the fans have given their all then we can expect no more and we will continue to progress as a club.'"
Spot on!
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| Top four is essential under this new structure for any club with ambition to progress and build for the future.
Finding yourselves outside of the four will make life extremely difficult as the difference in 4th and 5th is some serious quality in terms of PT playing salaries. If you guys can get it together there is no reason you cant take the forth spot and even challenge for third this year as you have a great squad and a progressive young coach.
I watched with interest the twitter feed from your game Friday night and it seemed like you put up a spirited show, go FT when the times right and you can afford to, many will gamble and fail now the door to SL is open again and a sustainable well run club that builds steadily is better than a bankrupt one.
Great club Fax and just as much a sleeping giant as Leigh was when we woke it up in June 2013.
Good luck guys I hope you make that forth spot and continue to build off the pitch.
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| Quote ="SRW1996"Top four is essential under this new structure for any club with ambition to progress and build for the future.
Finding yourselves outside of the four will make life extremely difficult as the difference in 4th and 5th is some serious quality in terms of PT playing salaries. If you guys can get it together there is no reason you cant take the forth spot and even challenge for third this year as you have a great squad and a progressive young coach.
I watched with interest the twitter feed from your game Friday night and it seemed like you put up a spirited show, go FT when the times right and you can afford to, many will gamble and fail now the door to SL is open again and a sustainable well run club that builds steadily is better than a bankrupt one.
Great club Fax and just as much a sleeping giant as Leigh was when we woke it up in June 2013.
Good luck guys I hope you make that forth spot and continue to build off the pitch.'"
Thank you-hope we can follow your lead.
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| Personally I think it's a very good post woothe discussing. I would like us to finish in the top four, the money would help us strengthen and it might just attract further sponsorship and support.
I am quite sure Richard would want to be in the top four and its up to the board of finding a way to help him achieve this.
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else"
Albert Einstein.
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| It is essential for us to finish top 4. If we do finish top 4 and we go on to lose all the games in the middle 8 that doesn't really matter in the short term. We need the extra funding so we can hopefully help RM add to the squad and we also need to show ambition to attract better players. If you satisfy yourself with lower championship rugby then all you will ever attract will be lower championship standard players. Of course this may not help the crowd levels but I suggest that unless we get back into SL then crowds will not increase anyway.
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| I have always believed that every club has a duty to attempt to put on its best performance when it walks on to a pitch. As a consequence I believe this debate is not about should we try and come as high as possible but IF we will achieve a top four spot based on the season so far - A small but vital distinction.
I have now had the opportunity to watch 11 of the championship clubs play (thats the advantage of having too much spare time) the exception being Doncaster (I am not sure i have missed much). Based upon this I would make the following comments:-
- The standard of referees in the league remains below expectation, whilst i feel they are actually working better as a "team" this year the guys in the middle are making some serious mistakes. I believe that this is down to both a lack of empathy with the players and a level of fitness that means they struggle for parts of the game. Given this it remains very feasible that the top four places could, if the league remains close, come down to refereeing mistakes over a season....contra to belief there is no mathematical logic that "decisions even themselves out over a season" - they don't!
- Leigh and Bradford are operating at a higher level of consistent skill, fitness and squad strength than the other teams in the league (albeit in a one off game either could loose) so will be in the top four.
- London Broncos off season was horrendous, they have a talented group of players, but lacked motivation and fitness. They are on the up now, with real coach, and, whilst exposed to key player injury (although DR will help), will continue to improve. They will loose a few more games but will be in the top four.
- Sheffield are punching above their weight, as ever. Good recruitment, well coached, but exposed by depth of squad. Have had a relatively easy start. Fighting for fourth
- Featherstone gone backwards this year, despite recruitment and squad size. Always hard to overcome, but have they been knocked for six by Castleford's plans as they appear to have lost energy off the field? . Fighting for fourth
- Halifax, Significant improvement since last season, but lack of investment in "playmakers" has hampered development of team. Defence still suspect. Fighting for fourth
- The rest, can always cause an upset, but nothing in teams that should frighten the rest.
So for me there is just a reinforcement of my pre-season views. Fax can do it, but I seriously worry that our lack of playmakers in the key games will let us down an when we get there we will struggle to win a game.
The only thing the season proves so far (including the cup games) is you need to be full-time to stand a chance of competing for promotion and every season Fax are only Part-time, under present 8's format, will have same results. So prize money, BOD investment (above the generous amounts given now) and enhanced fans financial and physical support will all be needed. But then whats new!
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| I am not going to rise to Howard Posner's analysis of the 'Fax shortcomings, this season, other than to comment that it may have looked different if Miles Greenwood were still at Fullback! That's not to criticise James Saltonstall, arguably the outstanding player so far, but he would have contributed in another position. The modern approach is to play a 'pivot' at Fullback, Scrum Half, Stand off and Hooker. Because of Miles' injury we haven't had that luxury, up to know.
However, I do want to emphasise what I said at last week's Fax Forum. There was no pressure on Richard Marshall to target the top 4 (and thus the middle 8s) this season. His brief is to entertain, and if that generates a Middle 8 place, so much the better.
Fax's central funding this season is £200K because we finished 3rd in last season's Championship, or 17th overall. 17th overall in 2015 and beyond means winning the Championship Shield, and the funding next year will be the same.
Bottom of the middle 8s will increase central funding to £450K (Featherstone this year), second bottom £500K (Leigh this year), third bottom and loser of the 'million pound game will each get £787K (London and Bradford this year).
We are not planning for a backward step, although it could happen. Any forward step has such financial significance that a Club can recruit to consolidate and then move forward. Our ambition for the rest of this season is to maintain our present league position and thus enter the middle 8s, use the increased funding to ensure a reserve grade and to consolidate next season, leading to reserve grade and full time the season after.
But it won't be achieved on Home Gates of 1122! Bring a Friend (or three).
Michael Steele
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| This thread got a mixed response as expected,but the last 2 responses from Mssrs
Posner and Steele certainly made it worthwhile !
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| Quote ="Bradshaw Bellringer"I am not going to rise to Howard Posner's analysis of the 'Fax shortcomings, this season, other than to comment that it may have looked different if Miles Greenwood were still at Fullback! That's not to criticise James Saltonstall, arguably the outstanding player so far, but he would have contributed in another position. The modern approach is to play a 'pivot' at Fullback, Scrum Half, Stand off and Hooker. Because of Miles' injury we haven't had that luxury, up to know.
However, I do want to emphasise what I said at last week's Fax Forum. There was no pressure on Richard Marshall to target the top 4 (and thus the middle 8s) this season. His brief is to entertain, and if that generates a Middle 8 place, so much the better.
Fax's central funding this season is £200K because we finished 3rd in last season's Championship, or 17th overall. 17th overall in 2015 and beyond means winning the Championship Shield, and the funding next year will be the same.
Bottom of the middle 8s will increase central funding to £450K (Featherstone this year), second bottom £500K (Leigh this year), third bottom and loser of the 'million pound game will each get £787K (London and Bradford this year).
We are not planning for a backward step, although it could happen. Any forward step has such financial significance that a Club can recruit to consolidate and then move forward. Our ambition for the rest of this season is to maintain our present league position and thus enter the middle 8s, use the increased funding to ensure a reserve grade and to consolidate next season, leading to reserve grade and full time the season after.
But it won't be achieved on Home Gates of 1122! Bring a Friend (or three).
Michael Steele'"
Nice post and hear hear to that.
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| - Featherstone gone backwards this year, despite recruitment and squad size. Always hard to overcome, but have they been knocked for six by Castleford's plans as they appear to have lost energy off the field? . Fighting for fourth
there plans have been thrown out
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| Quote ="Bradshaw Bellringer"I am not going to rise to Howard Posner's analysis of the 'Fax shortcomings, this season, other than to comment that it may have looked different if Miles Greenwood were still at Fullback! That's not to criticise James Saltonstall, arguably the outstanding player so far, but he would have contributed in another position. The modern approach is to play a 'pivot' at Fullback, Scrum Half, Stand off and Hooker. Because of Miles' injury we haven't had that luxury, up to know.
However, I do want to emphasise what I said at last week's Fax Forum. There was no pressure on Richard Marshall to target the top 4 (and thus the middle 8s) this season. His brief is to entertain, and if that generates a Middle 8 place, so much the better.
Fax's central funding this season is £200K because we finished 3rd in last season's Championship, or 17th overall. 17th overall in 2015 and beyond means winning the Championship Shield, and the funding next year will be the same.
Bottom of the middle 8s will increase central funding to £450K (Featherstone this year), second bottom £500K (Leigh this year), third bottom and loser of the 'million pound game will each get £787K (London and Bradford this year).
We are not planning for a backward step, although it could happen. Any forward step has such financial significance that a Club can recruit to consolidate and then move forward. Our ambition for the rest of this season is to maintain our present league position and thus enter the middle 8s, use the increased funding to ensure a reserve grade and to consolidate next season, leading to reserve grade and full time the season after.
But it won't be achieved on Home Gates of 1122! Bring a Friend (or three).
Michael Steele'"
Superb post Mr Steele,
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| Quote ="Bradshaw Bellringer"I am not going to rise to Howard Posner's analysis of the 'Fax shortcomings, this season, other than to comment that it may have looked different if Miles Greenwood were still at Fullback! That's not to criticise James Saltonstall, arguably the outstanding player so far, but he would have contributed in another position. The modern approach is to play a 'pivot' at Fullback, Scrum Half, Stand off and Hooker. Because of Miles' injury we haven't had that luxury, up to know.
However, I do want to emphasise what I said at last week's Fax Forum. There was no pressure on Richard Marshall to target the top 4 (and thus the middle 8s) this season. His brief is to entertain, and if that generates a Middle 8 place, so much the better.
Fax's central funding this season is £200K because we finished 3rd in last season's Championship, or 17th overall. 17th overall in 2015 and beyond means winning the Championship Shield, and the funding next year will be the same.
Bottom of the middle 8s will increase central funding to £450K (Featherstone this year), second bottom £500K (Leigh this year), third bottom and loser of the 'million pound game will each get £787K (London and Bradford this year).
We are not planning for a backward step, although it could happen. Any forward step has such financial significance that a Club can recruit to consolidate and then move forward. Our ambition for the rest of this season is to maintain our present league position and thus enter the middle 8s, use the increased funding to ensure a reserve grade and to consolidate next season, leading to reserve grade and full time the season after.
But it won't be achieved on Home Gates of 1122! Bring a Friend (or three).
Michael Steele'"
Without doubt the biggest challenge the Club faces is trying to increase crowd numbers the Club could do so much more with a healthier fan base . A couple of days ago I posted on Facebook asking if anyone would be interested in forming a group , to exchange ideas or offer help in boosting crowds on a matchday . So I am asking on here as well , would any of you be willing to come along to a meeting I had quite a few replies offering help but some people can`t make mid week and wanted a conveniant town location .
Any ideas are welcome and we need help from a wide age range too ,this is for anybody who has just that bit of extra time , ideas and energy to commit to increasing crowd numbers .
This may include leaflet delivery , chatting to people in the town centre as we have a stall in the Summer and one at the gala where help may be needed . Passing out leaflets to pubs , clubs , hairdressers , barbers , coffee shops restaurants and coming up with some new ideas we could try which will add to the good work the Club and CCT already do .
If midweek is bad for most does anyone know if it`s possible to have the bar at the Shay on a Saturday lunchtime `ish or any other location that would be conveniant .
This is not about why people don`t come any more this is about ideas to get lost fans back and cultivating new ones , we have nothing to lose by trying this and everything to gain.
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