needs dropping, how much better did we play when he came off

he is seriously lacking confidence,

It's all them knock ons he does.

Dont really think he needs dropping just really should have a bit of a game plan. Its alright playing off the cuff but i think he needs to do the basics right to build his confidence. The rest of the league have sussed the chip over the top. Also think that joe was all over him today when he got the ball so a few passes out to the backs would have been great. Fax have become very predictable and thats where i feel the real problem is.

Penky actually took all them today

he doesnt need dropping how is that going to help his confidence.

I dont think he deserves to be dropped, lot more in the que before him but it says you cant just turn up go through the motions and expect to be in the team week after week.

PS am i the only one who saw that it was Gleeson who knocked on at the end of the game?

Maybe he needs a psychologist as clearly he is suffering more than first thought. Clearly since the Widnes game is off key. But he also usually has no proper 6 to work with neither

No, number 14 for me too!

it was down at the other end of the pitch. i just thought it was penky it was every other time so just assumed my mistake.

maybe a cunning plan for him to get the fans to dislike him and so has excuse to leave club.

It was Gleeson who knocked on...you are spot on.

Its funny to me that people are blaiming Ben Black. You can't put three poor performances down to one man, how ridiculous, does that mean without him we are nothing then? and a one man team like people have said in the past?

Plenty of people have played badly over the last three weeks but i don't think he needs singling out, he hasn't been any worse than a lot of others. I at least saw effort from him today and you can always tell he wants it. Its difficult for him to play well with no1 supporting him and also no forwards making yards to build from.

Maybe a case of "I told you so" with the ding dong I had with littlerich re Ben Black. Great off the cuff player but when he's off ... jeez he's off ... to be serious GF contenders we need a captain of the ship like Cas and Salford had in NL seasons gone by, until then we'll entertain but then headless chicken it when it really matters. I love thwe club and will always stick by them, but for the first time in years I made for the bar before the HT hooter, I never did that even when Faz was coach.

you guys did well 2day!

Is it a possibilty that ben is playing with an injury still from his hand but with it being the business end of the season he's playing on?

I don't think so no, as I have said you can't blaim Black, we are nit suppose to be a one man team so its no good singling him out.

As I have already said Ben Black can't play well swhen nobdy else around him is, he needs forward pressure to work with etc etc

back to govin at 6 n black at 7. we were playing well when had them there at start of season.

Black can't do everything by himself, which is what he had to do because bar Smith's try, Penky couldn't hold the ball for the first hour and very VERY few half backs can do everything by themselves. He was also behind a beaten pack and was made to look stupid as near enough every time he got the ball in the first half nobody ran angles for him and there was no protection from the speedy rush of the Haven defence.

I think Blacky has lost his sparkle. Someone pointed out yesterday that he looks to have put a few pounds on around the guts which is prob why he aint got the Zip he had. Not on his own though as quite a few of the lads look to be carrying a little bit of extra weight that they didnt have at the beginning of the season.

def didnt think ben did not spark yesterday, and penky seems to have taken on the role of spolit child - def think we need to shrug off these last three games and get back to thre attitude we had in the first half of the season

this leauge is ours for the takeing!

come on u bluuuuuuuuuuues

there is no doubt black is not in good form, but there are plenty of players like that right now, i thought he was trying everythin yesterday it was just leroy joe who did a great job of closing him down. there aint many stand offs that we face who is as physical as joe and he did a number on black.

I personally thought there were a couple of players who played a fair bit worse than black yesterday.

For me Beswicks form is more concerning his defense is fantastic but he seems to be trying to hard in attack trying to force passes and miracle plays which when your 20 points up come off but very rarely do when your behind.

I think ultimately its all about the forwards, other teams are really slowing us down which seriously dents our gameplan which is why you have the dummy half knocking on cos they are trying to get out of there too quick. Watene is the only prop right now who is getting quick play the balls.

he was seen in maggies on saturday night! just what you need with a game the day after!

i saw this but didnt see a need to make it public like this

black cant play behind a beaten pack which is something others have mentioned but one thing not mentioned is we dont use the forwards as much as we should.

i lost count of the amount of times Haley and Worricey picked the ball up and ran from dummy half on sunday. we never used the probs in that situation. we were never going to make enough yeards when we didnt use the forwards both wingers thought it was down to them to make the yards.

i dont know why when you have frank and said on the pitch you cant trust them with taking the ball up but they didnt get the ball nearlly enough to make the runs.

we did that towards the end of the game and wrench made 30 metres by running in at the line hard.

i think its a mentality against Haven they have a reputation of having a huge pack and we usually lose to them so automatically people that pick the ball up dont think that our pack cant beat theres and that is something we need to change if we meet Haven again in the play offs.

we have a stronger pack than we have had in years and we dont use them nearlly to the effect we should in my opinion.

Dont see why not? If he was playing well and destroying teams then people wouldn't be bothered but as he's not and we contribute to his wages people might be interested. Maggies is a pretty busy place on a saturday night so Black will have given plenty of people the chance to see him.