I asked for facts and methodology to determine those facts not an opinion stated by a discredited Chief Medical Officer over three years ago.

I rarely eat processed junk. My fats consist of dripping (beef & pork), butter, lard, goose fat and olive oil. I would never knowingly eat and margarine or any "healthy" spreads because I've seen the grey sludge that they really are before the addition of all the colourings and flavour enhancers.

Look for all the fatties out there, there'll still be plenty of Jim Fix characters. Starve yourself to the bone or run yourself into the ground if you wish. Don't tell me how to live my fooking life

Don't be daft, the NHS should only be there for healthy people

Of course, smokers already pay through the nose for the privilege as I alluded to before. You also pay increased tax on alcohol albeit a smaller amount when compared to cigarettes, it might need increasing?



All of the above are drugs, I take it you mean illegal ones? If so the cost to the NHS is negligible, especially when compared to the £6.2 billion figure. I say legalise them all and use the tax generated to cover rehab costs and the like. It will also be safer for users.



Ex-smoker and very occasional drinker, maybe a few pints once a month.

Thought you said you didn't care what I thought. Besides, seems you're in denial which is a classic sign of addiction. Is there any need to swear?

The Department of Health is more than one person you know; [url=http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publichealth/Obesity/index.htmHere[/url

This is why Donaldson was discredited:

From your link above: [iIn 2007, the Government-commissioned Foresight report predicted that if no action was taken, [u60% of men[/u, 50% of women and 25% of children would be [uobese by 2050[/u.[/i

And from your earlier link: [iEngland's chief medical officer Sir Liam Donaldson said: "In England, almost two-thirds of adults and a third of children are either overweight or obese without effective action this could rise to [unine in 10 adults[/u and two-thirds of children by 2050,"[/i

He blurs the definition of obese and overweight and fruit-loops like you jump on it.

I'm not in denial at all, as I said earlier in this thread, I used to weight 12.5 stones, ran 25 miles per week, refereed and ran lines at up to four games per week. All the time smoking 40 fags a day and drinking more than the government suggests is healthy.

The long-term damage caused by training for and playing rugby, to my knees, hips and hands has cost the NHS far more than my diet, drinking or smoking. Maybe we should ban sport?

Oh and I'll be dead long before 2050, so I shouldn't be a problem

Many of the complications involved with obesity do not materialize until the later years of someone's life. I do not think that sporting injuries amount to obesity's £4.2 billion cost to the NHS in 2008. Happy to be proven wrong though if you can provide the evidence?

The main point still stands, unlike the USA where we have nationalised healthcare someone who isn't you is paying the bill for your lack of effort to remain at a healthy weight. At no point did i suggest we ban anything, but maybe there is some way to recover the costs?

It's been an interesting debate anyway, I mean no ill.

You ask me to prove something? You're the one making so-far unsubstantiated assertions and your comparison with the a US-style system of healthcare is pure bollox. I am paying (and have been for the last 45 years) for someone else's healthcare, whether that be caused by obesity, drug overdoses, sex reassignment or traffic collisions. I don't have a problem with that, I'm quite happy to keep contributing. What I don't need is some evangelical nutjob like you, telling me what I should or shouldn't be eating or how much exercise I should take. If I can still drag a bass or turbot off the sea bed and then put it on my plate, then I'm happy.

So government bodies who actually run the NHS are not valid sources of information on the NHS?

Ha-ha, if you say so m'lard. I don't think this discussion is going anywhere, have fun!

Not without any explanation of the methodology to subtsantiate their claims, NO.

It's similar to Cameron describing yesterday's strike as a "damp squib". All you have evidenced so far are opinions, weighing heavily on a previously discredited political-medico, twisting his own "facts" to suit his personal agenda. Not unlike yourself in fact

It always helps to post what you actually mean, yes.



So the French are all dying at a younger age than they should, from these diseases, then? And the rates of death from such health problems in the UK has come down as we've successfully demonised natural saturated fats, yes?

I have no clue how they calculate the £4.2 billion, but if it is accurate then as UK consumers spend approx £14.5 billion annually on junk food (probably much more, if you widen the definition beyond the fast food chains, pizza Chinese and Indian takeaways) then I'm guessing the VAT take on that, plus the Tax and NI on the businesses and generated by the people who work in them, not to mention the business rates and corporation tax produced, the fuel duty on delivery vehicles then I would say financially HM Gov comes out well on the right side of the equation, wouldn't you?

You see just because you think your a nutritional expert youve already overcomplicated it for mr and mrs ordinary, youve garbled on quoting this and stating that, its pretty simple really, you can eat anything you want, as long as its in moderation. A balanced diet with good phiz is whats needed so really Mintball it is that easy.

Then you need to define "balanced" and also "in moderation". And WTF is "good phiz" when it's all at home?

I could easily follow Mintball's statement, yours left me totally confused.

People who post such semi-illiterate stuff as "good phiz" are clearly are not getting the right fatty nutrients to support their brain cell.

Reminds me of something my nan said a good few years ago when my grandad was alive

i remarked when he was eating fish that it helped develop your brain eating a lot of fish to which my nan replied in another room

"He must have been eating bloody goldfish all his life then"

But it is quite interesting that the 'old wives' tale' about fish being brain food has serious depth to it, if you consider the importance of oily fish/omega oils to the health of the nervous system and, therefore, the brain. You have to wonder how they knew this stuff.

CANT COOK WONT COOK ! take away's are the nations answer to the fact that people are just bone idle!

ok clever clogs - first of all please explain to me (and a few others it seems) what a 'good phiz' is ?

and then please explain your theory to my good lady who has lost much of her large intestine and two thirds of her liver making eating certain things,that is things which the system finds hard to digest for various reasons...

I,on the other hand can and do eat anything,usually 'in moderation',I love my food and appreciate it,that's probably why i'm obese (ish) but don't come on here and make sweeping generalisations that make you look rather silly not to mention coming out with phrases which not common within my 'oldie' circles !

And people who have a self important pompus style as as yours, who then have to pick fault with grammar have lost the argument.

Quote ="sanjunien"ok clever clogs - first of all please explain to me (and a few others it seems) what a 'good phiz' is ? and then please explain your theory to my good lady who has lost much of her large intestine and two thirds of her liver making eating certain things,that is things which the system finds hard to digest for various reasons... I,on the other hand can and do eat anything,usually 'in moderation',I love my food and appreciate it,that's probably why i'm obese (ish) but don't come on here and make sweeping generalisations that make you look rather silly not to mention coming out with phrases which not common within my 'oldie' circles !'" Check out this site for some basics on body shape and metabolism www.intense-workout.com/body_types.html good phiz is physical exercise, and it doesnt need to be sweating like a suicide bomber and blowing out of your harris, especially to lose weight. As for you wife sorry to hear of her unfortunate procedure, i wouldnt class her as mrs average when looking at her digestive system and ofcourse a special diet will be required. Enjoy your phiz

Quote ="sanjunien"ok clever clogs - first of all please explain to me (and a few others it seems) what a 'good phiz' is ? and then please explain your theory to my good lady who has lost much of her large intestine and two thirds of her liver making eating certain things,that is things which the system finds hard to digest for various reasons... I,on the other hand can and do eat anything,usually 'in moderation',I love my food and appreciate it,that's probably why i'm obese (ish) but don't come on here and make sweeping generalisations that make you look rather silly not to mention coming out with phrases which not common within my 'oldie' circles !'" Check out this site for some basics on body shape and metabolism www.intense-workout.com/body_types.html good phiz is physical exercise, and it doesnt need to be sweating like a suicide bomber and blowing out of your harris, especially to lose weight. As for you wife sorry to hear of her unfortunate procedure, i wouldnt class her as mrs average when looking at her digestive system and ofcourse a special diet will be required. Enjoy your phiz

Quote ="liedetector"Check out this site for some basics on body shape and metabolism www.intense-workout.com/body_types.html good phiz is physical exercise, and it doesnt need to be sweating like a suicide bomber and blowing out of your harris, especially to lose weight. As for you wife sorry to hear of her unfortunate procedure, i wouldnt class her as mrs average when looking at her digestive system and ofcourse a special diet will be required. Enjoy your phiz'" thanks for the explanation at nearly 58 years of age and with very dodgy knees after nearly 40 years of physical graft the diet has become more important than the physical bit - my job gives me ample exercise but thanks or the tips.

Quote ="liedetector"Check out this site for some basics on body shape and metabolism www.intense-workout.com/body_types.html good phiz is physical exercise, and it doesnt need to be sweating like a suicide bomber and blowing out of your harris, especially to lose weight. As for you wife sorry to hear of her unfortunate procedure, i wouldnt class her as mrs average when looking at her digestive system and ofcourse a special diet will be required. Enjoy your phiz'" thanks for the explanation at nearly 58 years of age and with very dodgy knees after nearly 40 years of physical graft the diet has become more important than the physical bit - my job gives me ample exercise but thanks or the tips.

"A good workout" doesn't need to be in the form of an organised exercise routine, certainly doesn't need a gym, in fact I'd ban gyms altogether for someone who simply wishes to lose a little weight and feel a bit fitter (not be out of breath after walking up a slight hill for instance).

Cycling 15 miles a day to/from work (total mileage) lost me a stone in six weeks which is unsustainable but welcome at the same time, more importantly I started to feel fit again and yet was still 16 stone - since buying a car for the winter I have maintained the current weight but am now missing the cycling and seriously thinking of leaving the car behind three days a week and getting some rain on my face again, it certainly wakes you up in a morning.

What is it with you old folk and your attitude to gyms? There is absolutely nothing wrong with training in a gym - it can and does work for a lot of people. Even if you just take cardiovascular exercise, some people prefer to exercise indoors. But, as I said earlier, the benefits of resistance training are many, and it could easily be argued that this form of training is best/most safely carried out in a gym.

I'd rather see a ban on the sale of home exercise equipment and those bloody stupid "Slendertone" things.

I have a long-held view that the value or usefullness of any item is in inverse proportion to the numbers seen at car boot sales. That's why every other stall has a Reebok Step, step machine, cross trainer, rowing machine, exercise bike and/or breadmaker/smoothymaker for sale

with respect,I don't know how old you are (20/30s ?) but age does make a difference - my ma in law is 80 and is as fit as a fiddle - she's had a busy life both worrking and domestic though not overly 'physical' - i'm 22 years younger and have always done physical graft and certain body parts get worn believe it or not and the gym or any kind of physical work out is the last thing I want to do - my work keeps me physically strong and I do it despite the aches and pains - twenty years ago or even ten years ago I could have done the regular physical stuff now my body doesn't allow it - i'mhanging on as long as posible before having a total knee replacement because I know that will effectively end my present job and the chances of finding any other work at my age will be impossible

oh,to be younger...