Always wondered why a company that is interested in making profits (e.g. Moody's, Standard & Poor) is allowed to be in a position to make this sort of decision/announcement? And why their view makes such a difference?

The UK's rating should be way less. It has only held up because we have had a history of getting out of messes, the government talked a good story when they came in, the government and Bank were given the benefit of the doubt and as everywhere else looked dodgy sentiment said the UK was a relative safe haven (purely for historic reasons). As reality gradually outs - that despite efforts things are getting worse at an alarming rate the markets have to face facts. When they do they will be brutal to the UK and we'll all be in the brown stuff. If you are under 35 emigrate now.

money will pour out of London to New York. Barack obamas US has adopted a strategy focused primarily on growth and a measured approach to deficit reduction which is now paying dividends. Osbourne was alone in the world in adopting a strategy based on slashing spending and depressing demand and consumer consumer confidence and his clueless policies are going to take decades to recover from. The only upside is that this shower have taken 2 years to toxify the tories whereas thatcher took 9. A whole new generation will both hate and distrust the tories forever.

I think you underestimate how many voters blame Labour. I think the Tories will get a modest majority at the next general Election. Ed M is unelectable. The electorate distrust and distrust Ed Balls. Labour represents no-one and nothing. I am afraid they are a joke and for that reason alone the Tories will win by default.

yes the polls are consistently pointing towards a tory majority at the next election and Dave and Gideons personal approval ratings are blasting ever skywards.

In other news pigs have been sighted flying serenely over Dallys planets

Opinion polls don't factor in the effects of the two Ed's being on TV every night during a GE campaign.

But they do factor in 2 clueless posh boys who are sending us to hell in a handcart.
Or are you suggesting that when it comes to voting time the folks will just forget their kids have nothing to eat because they don't like the scary mr Milliband.

I'm afraid that I concur, politics at election time is all about personalities and persuasion and so far Cameron and Osborne are doing a remarkable job at pinning the blame on everything and everyone other than themselves, they are as slippery as greased piglets in a fairground and have consistently failed to be brought to explain themselves without recourse to "its not our fault".

I fear that with Murdochs support over the next two years (expect to see no further action from Leveson) then the wool will be pulled down even further over the electorates eyes and without an effective opposition they could easily win a workable majority - and they don't have an effective opposition at the moment, its like Thatchers realm all over again.

Sadly I'm another who can easily envisage the useless incumbents getting another shot in office.
They've successfully nurtured the devisiveness card, ala Thatcher.
Optimism is at a minimum.
Middle England willl batten down the hatches and look after itself, as much as it deems possible.

So, Moody's downgrade the UK's credit rating. They cite one of the main reasons as being our high levels of debt. People blame the Government.

In other parts of internetshire, or perhaps even on the same messageboard, people are moaning about cuts. Which are ultimately being implemented to try and reduce the national debt. People blame the Government.

You can't really have it both ways, can you?

I'm similarly pessimistic, largely because voters nowadays rely on the media to tell them who to vote for and the broadcast media is relentlessly anti-Labour. And that includes the BBC. They've even managed to turn our loss of our AAA rating into an attack on Ed Balls this morning.


I have news for you. 'Middle England' is also suffering under this bunch of incompetents - it's only 'Upper England' that's benefiting. These folk you think will 'batten down the hatches' were better off under the last Labour Government. Trouble is many of them are too daft to realise it or too ready to believe what the media tells them.

I am not massively impressed with what we have at the moment. But the prospect of an Ed and Ed double act is simply too frightening to make me vote Labour.

It maybe suffering, but I doubt it's suffering enough, [ior,[/i has the appetite for change at present.

Cameron is a far more polished operator that Miliband.
Osbourne is a waste of space.
Balls, like him or loathe him, has far more sustance than Boy George.

I don't even know what they have to offer yet, which is frightening when they have two years maximum in which to make an impression and come up with a plan of action - and possiby just a few months if the coalition ever collapses.

Ed Balls was interviewed for a while on Radio Leeds yesterday, its a fetaure they do every Friday where they drag on a local MP and get his constituents to call in and quiz him - "Ballsy" as he prefers to be know (its his email address) spent half an hour speaking to people about their blocked drains and litter picking on their estates, which is all admirable in a local MP and it sounds like he spends a lot fo time in the constituency but really thats what your local councillor is for, this bloke is "supposed" to be the shadow chancellor FFS, and no-one asked him about his national policies or what he would be doing if he were in government right now, and frankly I don't think he has a plan.

Which will be obvious if the Tories declared an election right now.

How much suffering is enough?

The issue isn't how much suffering is going one. The issue is that people of [iall[/i classes are far too easily conned into thinking it would have been or would be worse under Labour. See TVR's post for an example of the type of knee-jerk response typical of the gullible masses.

People can just as easily be conned into thinking it would have been better under Labour. That's politics.

Enough for them to warrant an alternative at present or in two years time....
With the probable collapse of the Lib-Dem vote at the next GE a Conservative majority 7/2 is a cracking bet imo.
Shame it contravenes my strict moral code to contemplate putting a wager on them.

People seem to be forgetting a few points when predicting a Tory majority.

1. They couldn't secure one in 2010 when people had nothing to judge Cameron and Osbourne on and when Labour were being blamed for everything and had Brown as leader. They should have had a landslide but failed to get one.

2. UKIP are not going away and neither is European question

3. This government is wreaking the NHS - that alone is vote winner for any opposition

4. The economy is a mess and the its "all Labour's fault" is rapidly running out of steam to the extent people are, I believe, sick of hearing it. They aren't that interested in who's fault it was but why it hasn't been fixed.

5. That have not managed to gerrymander the election by getting the number of constituencies reduced

6. A lot of people are being affected directly in a negative way with kids having to pay tuition fees of £9K or losing housing benefit/tax credits.

7. Back to the economy, its just not going to pick up that much if at all between now and the election so they won't have much success to point to.

What Labour has to do other than relying on all the above negatives about this government is come up with an effective way of mitigating Tory spin. It's been apparent from day 1 that they have a tactic of telling lies often enough so people will believe it. The way in which any discussion on the economy is always predicated by "Clearing up labours mess" is a case in point.

The whole point is, yes you can. Darling was going to make cuts to reduce the debt but not as far or as fast so as not to choke off growth. What he predicted would happen if you cut too far too fast has happened. He as been proved correct, Osborne proved wrong and the loss of the AAA rating is the latest indicator of that.

I am surprised you even posted the above because the economic debate has always been about how far and fast to cut in order to get debt down. Labour has always said you can't just cut your way out of this problem but that you have to grow the economy to increase tax revenues as well. This is not news and neither is the government's opposite view so to post the above suggests you have been on a different planet since 2010.

All decent valid points Dave but through experience I don't have the same confidence in the electorate that you seem to possess.
We haven't had one-term party Government now since the 70's.
I know this is meant to be a coalition, but it's only in name.
I fear the Tories may get the whole gig next time, carte blanche.

The other fascinating thing is the automatic assumption that the LibDem vote will be non-existant the next time around - based on what ?

There is the tuition fee promise of course, played a blinder there did Clegg in an archetypal "I don't care what we said, this gets me five years sitting at the top table", but other than that can anyone think of anything that the LibDems have done or said since 2010 that will cost them in 2015 ?

They have effectively sat on their hands in the same way that Labour have done with the benefit of a few of their members drawing Ministerial salaries and come 2015 you can bet that their PR people will be cherry picking various quotes to show where they were influencial in some of the more beneficial government policies (no I can't think of any off hand but they will when the time comes).

What we have is two posh boys who are now taking all the flak for the Tories and the Lib-Dems hiding behind the curtains but still drawing the salaries - come an election they'll be the party with the blank canvas ready to pitch whatever the hell they like.

We already know you'll be registering for them once again next time round JC.

The scary thing in this country is the amount of people who have actually given up on, or have no interest in, politics.

With the state this country is in and with such an uncertain future, you would think we should have a very high turnout at any upcoming election, yet its highly likely that come any election, we will see a record low turnout....With that in mind, it could be argued that any government are actually there by default, just stumbling along, knowing full well that they can inflict their ill thought out policies without much response, bar the political anoraks in the media.

The sad thing is, there is nobody who appears capable of inspiring people back to the ballot box - Cameron and Osborne are just a pair of upper class chancers, helped by a mainly supportive press, Milliband is unelectable simply because he is totally charisma free and Clegg is a combination of those mentioned.

It comes to something when the country's most popular politician is Boris Johnson, a man who most typifies the bumbling mess that this country has got itself into.....Its almost as if people think he represents best the state of politics today - A joke, and just there for laughs.