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| Quote ="Him"icon_lol.gif
I like you. You're about as clueless as Ajw.
There are currently over 70 free schools. If Labour had been in there would have been 0. That is lower privatisation. As is fewer police functions privatised and no NHS commissioning groups which you conveniently ignored.
It's difficult to compare to European economies due to the restrictions of the Euro. The US however, was quickly into growth thanks to a fiscal stimulus.
Hmmm well Labour brought us out of one, then the Tories took us into one AFTER the causes of the global recession. That's not global/non-governmental effects, that's caused by government policies.
I don't pretend the government can hold back the global economic tides, but they can mitigate their effects. Labour did that to some degree. This government failed to do that.
As for tax - how much of the UK's income do the top 1% receive? How much of the UK's wealth do they own? Until you answer those questions the proportion of income tax they pay is irrelevant.
You really are making a fool of yourself now. It is accepted by every economic body that VAT is regressive, the last figures I saw was that poorer people paid 9.4% of their income compared to 4.8% of the top 10%'s income in VAT. As I said, that's not taking into account other regressive items such as energy, water etc so a quarter of income tax take is quite generous for the richest 1% of the country. They should be grateful to live in a country that provides them with the conditions to make such huge sums of money.
You obviously have no idea, 10 points is quite a large lead and would lead to a Labour majority of over 120 seats in parliament. As the Tories poll figures have been on a downward trend and being split apart by UKIP, it's worrying for the Tories. I see you have as much idea about polls as Ajw does. I'm sure Wikipedia can explain it all for you.'"
It doesn't matter what the polls say, my opinion is the only one that matters and if every poll you produce goes against my opinion, then my opinion is still more valid.
Isn't that how polls work.... 
Cringeworthy... |
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| Quote ="samwire"
is that all, 10 points? really. despite vaste swathes of the country being laid waste? christ, the tories will take that all day long with a couple of years still to and election.'"
Correct. The economy is now starting to pick up, as will be confirmed on Thursday. 10 point lead will evaporate.
If not an army of home insulators should do the trick. |
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| Quote ="JerryChicken"
Do you know what your MP did today ?
I do.'"
I expect mine (also a LimpDem) will have squeezed his fat ar[is[/ie into his usual place on the extreme right of the front bench (left as you look on the telly) and done what he usually does: look totally bored and uninterested. |
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| Quote ="Ajw71"Correct. The economy is now starting to pick up, as will be confirmed on Thursday. 10 point lead will evaporate.
If not an army of home insulators should do the trick.'"
That 10 point difference will widen once the 2013 cuts start to hit the most vulnerable in the country. Today even the tory who dreamed up the Poll Tax (Bernard Jenkin), has warned the government that they face similar unrest if they push ahead with their proposed changed to council tax relief, citing that they will be targeting those least able to contribute. |
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| Quote ="Ajw71"Correct. The economy is now starting to pick up'"
It couldn't have got much worse and were are only back to somewhere near where we were when they took office and they haven't even scratched the deficit.
Plenty of time for that 10 point lead to turn into a 15-20 point lead. |
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| Quote ="Ajw71"It doesn't matter what the polls say, my opinion is the only one that matters and if every poll you produce goes against my opinion, then my opinion is still more valid.
Isn't that how polls work....
Cringeworthy...'"
Why don't you search Wikipedia to find some ridiculous polls to back up your point? In the meantime I'll stick with the average of polls that shows a 10 point lead and a significant majority for Labour. You know these are actually polls that people respect and take note of. They're not a couple of historians opinions, they're polls that compiled by professional polling organisations, with statistically significant samples, demographic distribution, and accurate weightings.
But then you wouldn't know about such things, to you every poll is equal. Which is like saying Milford u8's are the same ability as Leeds first team. They're all rugby players after all. |
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| Quote ="Him"icon_lol.gif
Why don't you search Wikipedia to find some ridiculous polls to back up your point? In the meantime I'll stick with the average of polls that shows a 10 point lead and a significant majority for Labour. You know these are actually polls that people respect and take note of. They're not a couple of historians opinions, they're polls that compiled by professional polling organisations, with statistically significant samples, demographic distribution, and accurate weightings.
But then you wouldn't know about such things, to you every poll is equal. Which is like saying Milford u8's are the same ability as Leeds first team. They're all rugby players after all.'"
Which respected polls? Why don't you post up all these polls so we can judge for ourselves whether they are 'respected' or should we just take your highly biased word for it. |
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Quote ="Ajw71"Which respected polls? Why don't you post up all these polls so we can judge for ourselves whether they are 'respected' or should we just take your highly biased word for it.'"
Thanks BG.
Don't worry yourself Ajw lad, just search Wikipedia or Google, I'm sure there'll be a poll of someone's living room somewhere that backs you up.
In the meantime the adults will deal with professional polling organisations.
Anyway, I believe this thread was about George Osborne making a fool of himself on a train before the Tory apologists appeared and tried to divert the thread.
Anyone who tries to get away without paying the proper fare is a pillock, especially when they make such hypocritical comments about other people like Osborne has. |
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Quote ="Ajw71"Which respected polls? Why don't you post up all these polls so we can judge for ourselves whether they are 'respected' or should we just take your highly biased word for it.'"
Thanks BG.
Don't worry yourself Ajw lad, just search Wikipedia or Google, I'm sure there'll be a poll of someone's living room somewhere that backs you up.
In the meantime the adults will deal with professional polling organisations.
Anyway, I believe this thread was about George Osborne making a fool of himself on a train before the Tory apologists appeared and tried to divert the thread.
Anyone who tries to get away without paying the proper fare is a pillock, especially when they make such hypocritical comments about other people like Osborne has. | |
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I do actually think Labour have a lead. I am not stupid enough to think that every poll on a given subject is incorrect just because I don't agree with them. That would be ridiculous and arrogant.
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I do actually think Labour have a lead. I am not stupid enough to think that every poll on a given subject is incorrect just because I don't agree with them. That would be ridiculous and arrogant.
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| Quote ="Ajw71"I do actually think Labour have a lead. I am not stupid enough to think that every poll on a given subject is incorrect just because I don't agree with them. That would be ridiculous and arrogant.'"
Those are statistically balanced, peer reviewed and more often than not spot on polls by companies everyone trusts to get it right (well apart from Neil Kinnock that is ;-0) a huge difference from the assorted junk you tried to pass off as a proper opinion poll. |
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Yes a whopping 2,000 replies to one of those polls and 7,000 for another.
And to think you criticised one of my polls for having 27,000 replies.
Twenty seven thousand replies - but you and Him don't agree with the result of it, so it's irrelevant but then your polls with 2,000 replies are gospel.
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| Quote ="Ajw71"Yes a whopping 2,000 replies to one of those polls and 7,000 for another.
And to think you criticised one of my polls for having 27,000 replies. '"
You know, I gave you some credit, I really didn't think you were that thick, you've proved me wrong. |
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| Quote ="Ajw71"Yes a whopping 2,000 replies to one of those polls and 7,000 for another.
And to think you criticised one of my polls for having 27,000 replies.
Twenty seven thousand replies - but you and Him don't agree with the result of it, so it's irrelevant but then your polls with 2,000 replies are gospel.'"
Is there a deletion button for late, tired and emotional posts? I'd be looking for it sharpish numbnuts! |
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| Quote ="Ajw71"Yes a whopping 2,000 replies to one of those polls and 7,000 for another.
And to think you criticised one of my polls for having 27,000 replies.
Twenty seven thousand replies - but you and Him don't agree with the result of it, so it's irrelevant but then your polls with 2,000 replies are gospel.'"
Is there a deletion button for late, tired and emotional posts? I'd be looking for it sharpish numbnuts! |
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| Quote ="WIZEB"Is there a deletion button for late, tired and emotional posts? I'd be looking for it sharpish numbnuts!'"
Does it include duplications too? |
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| Quote ="cod'ead"Does it include duplications too?'"
I'd just got home w@nkered, what was little Tory boys excuse?  |
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| Quote ="samwire"ah, the default 'must call names' post. good show.'" |
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| Quote ="Him" It's difficult to compare to European economies due to the restrictions of the Euro. The US however, was quickly into growth thanks to a fiscal stimulus. '" aaaah, so you don't want to compare us to a region that is in basket case territory, yet you do want to compare us to somewhere that is almost normal. To suggest that the eurozone crisis hasn't had a startling effect on our economy is laughable. Hell, I'm sure it was in the press last week that the chinese economy is slowing in part to the eurozone.
Quote Hmmm well Labour brought us out of one, then the Tories took us into one AFTER the causes of the global recession. That's not global/non-governmental effects, that's caused by government policies.
I don't pretend the government can hold back the global economic tides, but they can mitigate their effects. Labour did that to some degree. This government failed to do that.'"
so, with todays gdp figures, you'll put the best growth since 2007 down to tory policies?
Quote You obviously have no idea, 10 points is quite a large lead and would lead to a Labour majority of over 120 seats in parliament. As the Tories poll figures have been on a downward trend and being split apart by UKIP, it's worrying for the Tories. I see you have as much idea about polls as Ajw does. I'm sure Wikipedia can explain it all for you'"
i would have 'no idea' if they then held an election within minutes of conducting the poll, however, as there hasn't been a change of government i'm guessing there hasn't been one. a 10 point lead is marvellous, but it could have been announced as a 50 point lead or a 1 point lead, at this moment in time it means bugger all. a week is a long time in politics and it's the economy, stupid. if you're wondering who said those things, try wikipedia, you seem to be an expert on what it does or doesn't contain. |
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| Quote ="samwire"so, with todays gdp figures, you'll put the best growth since 2007 down to tory policies?'"
Not quite as fast as you (and they) would like us to do.
Surprises surprise the service sector does well when we have a month of Olympic euphoria (and the ticket income is included in the figures), but the construction sector tanked, by 2.5%. Lets see what the figures in the next quarter are before we get the trumpets out. |
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And almost as soon as the news came out, it was followed by that of Ford closing plants and cutting at least 1,300 jobs.
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| Quote ="Chris28"Not quite as fast as you (and they) would like us to do.
Surprises surprise the service sector does well when we have a month of Olympic euphoria (and the ticket income is included in the figures), but the construction sector tanked, by 2.5%. Lets see what the figures in the next quarter are before we get the trumpets out.'"
And it was being compared with a quarter when there was an extra bank holiday. |
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Quote ="samwire"aaaah, so you don't want to compare us to a region that is in basket case territory, yet you do want to compare us to somewhere that is almost normal. '"
What are you on about? Why would I compare the UK to an entire region? For a start the Eurozone is not a basket case, only parts of it are, and those parts have unique issues that discount them from comparison to the UK. Anyone who compares the UK to Greece, for instance, clearly doesn't know what they're on about. The failed fare-dodger, that this thread was originally about before several attempts to divert it by Tory apologists, has made that mistake a few times.
It's also DIFFICULT TO COMPARE the UK to other Eurozone countries due to the restrictions of the Euro. The inability to devalue their currency, increase the money supply, and the responsibility to bail out other nations makes comparison difficult. But if you want to compare us to Germany & France then go right ahead. I think you'll find that they never even went into a double dip.
Quote ="samwire"To suggest that the eurozone crisis hasn't had a startling effect on our economy is laughable. Hell, I'm sure it was in the press last week that the chinese economy is slowing in part to the eurozone. '"
Go ahead and quote where I said anything like that if you can. If not, nice attempt at a further diversion. Also since our trading position with the Eurozone has actually improved I'd be surprised if it were exports to the Eurozone, and not lower exports to the rest of the world plus lower domestic spending that are the primary causes.
Quote ="samwire"so, with todays gdp figures, you'll put the best growth since 2007 down to tory policies? '"
No. I would put stagnant GDP and higher unemployment since they took office down to Tory policies.
As mentioned the GDP figures are distorted by factors like the Jubilee, the Olympics and the weather. The underlying strength of the economy is weak and the underlying growth figure is thought to be around 0.2%
Quote ="samwire"i would have 'no idea' if they then held an election within minutes of conducting the poll, however, as there hasn't been a change of government i'm guessing there hasn't been one. a 10 point lead is marvellous, but it could have been announced as a 50 point lead or a 1 point lead, at this moment in time it means bugger all. a week is a long time in politics and it's the economy, stupid. if you're wondering who said those things, try wikipedia, you seem to be an expert on what it does or doesn't contain.'"
No, because that's not what you said. You dismissed it as a low figure, not as meaningless. A 10 point lead and 120 seat majority are not low figures, neither is the 10% and growing vote for UKIP, which will only hurt the Tories.
As for Wikipedia, ask your fellow Tory apologist, Ajw.
On the other hand I wouldn't if I were you, it's embarrassing.
Anyway, to get this back on topic. The failed fare-dodger doesn't like questions about it all.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... ravel.html |
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Quote ="samwire"aaaah, so you don't want to compare us to a region that is in basket case territory, yet you do want to compare us to somewhere that is almost normal. '"
What are you on about? Why would I compare the UK to an entire region? For a start the Eurozone is not a basket case, only parts of it are, and those parts have unique issues that discount them from comparison to the UK. Anyone who compares the UK to Greece, for instance, clearly doesn't know what they're on about. The failed fare-dodger, that this thread was originally about before several attempts to divert it by Tory apologists, has made that mistake a few times.
It's also DIFFICULT TO COMPARE the UK to other Eurozone countries due to the restrictions of the Euro. The inability to devalue their currency, increase the money supply, and the responsibility to bail out other nations makes comparison difficult. But if you want to compare us to Germany & France then go right ahead. I think you'll find that they never even went into a double dip.
Quote ="samwire"To suggest that the eurozone crisis hasn't had a startling effect on our economy is laughable. Hell, I'm sure it was in the press last week that the chinese economy is slowing in part to the eurozone. '"
Go ahead and quote where I said anything like that if you can. If not, nice attempt at a further diversion. Also since our trading position with the Eurozone has actually improved I'd be surprised if it were exports to the Eurozone, and not lower exports to the rest of the world plus lower domestic spending that are the primary causes.
Quote ="samwire"so, with todays gdp figures, you'll put the best growth since 2007 down to tory policies? '"
No. I would put stagnant GDP and higher unemployment since they took office down to Tory policies.
As mentioned the GDP figures are distorted by factors like the Jubilee, the Olympics and the weather. The underlying strength of the economy is weak and the underlying growth figure is thought to be around 0.2%
Quote ="samwire"i would have 'no idea' if they then held an election within minutes of conducting the poll, however, as there hasn't been a change of government i'm guessing there hasn't been one. a 10 point lead is marvellous, but it could have been announced as a 50 point lead or a 1 point lead, at this moment in time it means bugger all. a week is a long time in politics and it's the economy, stupid. if you're wondering who said those things, try wikipedia, you seem to be an expert on what it does or doesn't contain.'"
No, because that's not what you said. You dismissed it as a low figure, not as meaningless. A 10 point lead and 120 seat majority are not low figures, neither is the 10% and growing vote for UKIP, which will only hurt the Tories.
As for Wikipedia, ask your fellow Tory apologist, Ajw.
On the other hand I wouldn't if I were you, it's embarrassing.
Anyway, to get this back on topic. The failed fare-dodger doesn't like questions about it all.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... ravel.html | |
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[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ramesh-patel/growth-cameron-austerity_b_2007552.html?utm_hp_ref=twRamesh Patel (an admitted and known conservative), rubbishes Cameron, Osborne and samwire's claims on the state of the economy they inherited and have so far (mis)managed[/url
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| Quote ="cod'ead"[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ramesh-patel/growth-cameron-austerity_b_2007552.html?utm_hp_ref=twRamesh Patel (an admitted and known conservative), rubbishes Cameron, Osborne and samwire's claims on the state of the economy they inherited and have so far (mis)managed[/url'"
From the above article:
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it" Joseph Goebbels
This has been the strategy from day one of this government to justify just about every policy going e.g the lie about how the postman pays the University Students fees in order to justify the removal of the higher education funding grant and the imposition of £9K per year tuition fees.
What is depressing about it is as the article also mentions this strategy succeeds because the population is generally too thick or disinterested to see past the tabloid like headlines the governments spin results in. |
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