Didn't fancy trying to revive this account on the Mitchell thread then?

Not with two lots of legal fees to pay LOL

As a right winger surely you must applaud the tax avoiders.

Isn't it right wing dogma that taxes must be avoided at all costs and yet here you are spouting forth that this is wrong!

Seems to me that as usual you talk the right wing line without having a clue how the system works.

By the way any nearer giving answers to my previous questions?

The right wing line is about wealth creation and rewarding those who create that wealth. The stakeholders are: shareholders who risk their capital, directors who manage the shareholders' investments, employees who benefit from the first two, suppliers likewise and their employees, the general population through taxation - no way of avoiding Employers NI and VAT. The right wing model creates wealth that benefits everyone, what is wrong at the moment is the spread of the wealth generated. If this isn't resolved then you will have anarchy - something Cameron doesn't understand. That's what happens when you have rich boys who have never had a proper job.

It could be much worse - you could have a socialist/marxist/communist system that stunts development still spreads wealth unevenly and dictates to its citizens how they live their life.

Capitalism has its faults but its a hell of a lot better than any alternative out there.

Wrong. Because I am not a left winger or that I contest your cosy mutual leftie backslappers club opinions does not therefore make me a right winger. Right of centre for most things left of centre for other issues.



So this proves your judgement to be wrong and by your own rules I am therefore not a right winger



I merely seek to prick the leftie hot air bubble.



Remind me which of your confusions you would like clearing up?

So what are we saying here ... Greeks are ... erm ... [ipathologically corrupt?[/i

[iPodemos[/i on the march in sunny Spain.

[urlhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31072139[/url

'Oh the UKIP wagon is a-comin' down the street'

Without the 'on', that doesn't scan.

"Happy times are comin' for to stay - hey!"

No what I said was "Greece has a culture of tax avoidance and corruption spread across the population" - no mention of disease.

Wow.... and you are the one suggesting others do not understand the system!

Greed = greed. Which can be found in all walks of life , be it a capitalist, a worker, a communist or a union official. (the last 2 are really the same delete which is inappropriate

)
Capitalism while by no means perfect is the system the great majority of the world prefers while other systems have failed badly or been
rejected.
Capitalism has produced most of the finest advances in science, medicine, agriculture, transport etc etc
Capitalism creates the products that give employment and create the profits that pays the taxes to fund the our services.
A share holder is either someone who risks his own money which is invested in a company to help it progress for the benefit of customers, shareholders, taxpayers and employees.
The other type of shareholders are the Insurance companies, Building Societies, Unions, Local Authorities, Pension Funds who invest for the benefit of a large chunk of the population.
Those sitting at home just now watching the 40" plasmas are most likely to be the workshy.
The alternative is to live in a world where you aspire to own a Trabant and are content to keep your job as a lift-man for the rest of your vodka swilling life.

Those large multinationals that are allowed to "cheat" the tax system is not because of capitalism but rather because of weak politicians. But Capitalism makes for competition which gives you the freedom the choose Costa Coffee over Starbucks and not to buy from Amazon etc. You can even Google to find the alternatives to Google!

Having said that I would like to see the law changed so that the large public companies have to have a decent percentage (say at least 30%) of their shares owned by their employees which would be very much in line with Capitalist principles

May I suggest you read "The Entrepreneurial State" by Mariana Mazzucato (it is available as a free pdf download). You'll find that many of today's "finest advances" have in fact been initially funded by the state. Could you seriously imagine private enterprise would've funded the technology required to allow the creation of the World Wide Web?

The systemic avoidance of corporation tax by various multi-nationals, through transfer pricing and relocating to "tax-efficient" jurisdictions is not a problem for politicians to solve. It is a problem of a near-criminal mindset of certain corporations

Given the state doesn't generate funding itself where does the money come from to fund university research? It is no fluke that advances in knowledge have accelerated since the adoption of Capitalism as the major economic state. It also no fluke that most of these major advances have happened in countries where Capitalism is in place.

Your second point I have some sympathy with but it is a very tough world out there and companies are battling each other for dominance. Having cash is a must, paying it over in tax should be minimised. Nobody likes paying tax - you may but I would say you are in a minority. No party is advocating increasing income tax, why not if you think we are all so altruistic? if the citizens don't want to pay tax why would you think hard nosed business would be any different.

By providing the facilities for research - universities etc, the state very much generates funding of research. The military also funds research that transfers to civilian life. I mentioned the WWW, you can also add to that mobile cellular communications, GPS etc.

Without the initial state funding, it's extremely doubtful we would be communicating even now.

On my second point, why are some companies happy to pay their share of tax, while others will pay lawyers and accountants $millions to avoid paying their share? If the delinquent corporations could be brought into the tax loop then rates could be reduced. Why should some corporations feel they are entitled to benefit from infrastructure, education etc while making a zero contribution to the funding?

[url=http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/business/six-firms-including-google-facebook-5081824A timely report[/url

And you can demonstrate that this "culture" stops. Completely. The minute you step across the border leaving Greece. Any border?

I think he actually means tax evasion rather than avoidance.
Irrespective of whether he is right or not.

The state can only spend the money it generates either through taxation or borrowing - so without the private sector it would not be able to invest anything as it would not generate any funds. It would not be able to borrow as it would have no way of repaying the loans.

There has been plenty of private sector funded developments that have enhanced our lives - transport being one, all the mechanical advances made during the industrial revolution etc.

On the second point its a cultural thing driven from the top - I wonder what CT rate we need to encourage all to pay? What is the rate where diminishing returns stops in this area 20% obviously isn't low enough.

Thank you for replying.

My only comment is that your replies only add evidence to what I already understood and knew.

I always appreciate different insights and understandings of situations and that is the beauty of open debate.

Corruption in Greece? [url=http://www.transparency.org/cpi2014/resultsSurely not.[/url

Officially joint most corrupt in Western Europe/the EU, alongside Romania, Bulgaria and Italy. Illustrious company indeed. When you're down there with the Italians you're definitely up to no good.

Seems to work well enougyh in the US, it's 35% there

Corruption is endemic within human society. There isn't some magical force-field which prevents it from leaking out of Greece.

Further to my earlier comments on multi-nationals avoiding paying UK tax. Would any of the advocates of free and unfettered capitalism care to comment on the ethics of this?

[iThat this House regrets that corporate tax avoidance costs the UK Exchequer billions annually, and that several international companies have been largely responsible; is dismayed to learn from the report Alliance Boots and the Need for Corporate Tax Reform, published by Unite/War On Want/Change to Win, that Alliance Boots, an ostensibly British company, has lawfully avoided more than £1 billion in corporate taxes since 2007 when it entered private ownership in the largest leveraged buyout in UK corporate history, following which the company reincorporated in the tax haven of Zug, Switzerland, where it earns no revenue, and is controlled by entities in Luxembourg, Gibraltar and the Cayman Islands; is concerned that it avoided taxes by loading most of the £9 billion buyout debt onto the highly profitable UK business, thus shifting profits abroad; notes that Alliance Boots significantly lowered its UK tax bill while deriving an estimated 40 per cent of its revenue from UK taxpayers, primarily via NHS prescriptions; further notes that Alliance Boots is seeking to increase its taxpayer-financed profits on the back of NHS privatisation; and calls on Alliance Boots to fully disclose its profits and taxes for all countries where it has significant revenue, on HM Revenue and Customs to comprehensively investigate Alliance Boots' tax practices, and on the Government to modernise the taxation of private-equity and heavily debt-financed businesses, and to require companies to disclose significant revenues that are derived from public sector contracts, and to reform the financial and taxation regulations in British Overseas Territories.[/i

We have a government who are quite happy with that arrangement

I think it's a mistake to assume they are happy with it. The truth is they don't have any choice. Or they won't be in government.