Good to see all the labour councils denying the local kids an education, despite the science.

This is why the nation sees them as a joke and they lost the last election by a landslide

What science, that is the problem, the government keep it to themselves. I suppose the new app will be the difference, oh wait something else promised but not delivered.

Those who voted Tory pretty much have blood on their hands.

I have no political agenda,but your comment is just plain stupid.

The Tories won the election,because many traditional Labour voters switched to Conservative in a vote that was pure and simply about Brexit.
The electorate were essentially given a e binary choice.
Even members of my own family that had voted Labour for 40 years refused to vote Labour in the GE,as they simply didn't want another Brexit referendum,which is what Corbyn wanted.

And they got what they wanted (or did they? They all wanted out, just not sure they wanted the same kind of out).
Anyway, they got their "Let's get Brexit done", the rest of the policies, who cares eh?

And if you were a teacher, mixing with "x" number of kids, from a different range of backgrounds etc, would you be confident of avoiding the virus.
Not to mention how you get a class of 30+ kids to be socially distant in a room that was already cramped for space



There are two primary reasons for trying to get kids back to school, without adequate planning and the main one is to allow their parents to return to work.

You will notice that child minders cant yet re open, apparently it's not safe yet but, schools can - do you see the contradiction in the advice
Or that, its safe for teachers to "look after" the kids but, those same children cant visit their grandparents ? in case they pass something on to people in the "vulnerable" group

So its ok to have a few hundred kids at school but, not allow one or two to visit people that are "healthy"

With the consistent mis leading of the public and endless spinning of the truth by this Tory government, would you put your trust in them

Schools have had 8 weeks to plan a return for kids to school, many have been open so they will have experience of teaching children in these circumstances. How many teachers have gone down with Covid as a direct result of working in schools that are already open?

To compare child minders to state schools is laughable as you well know.

Given the vast majority of deaths have occurred within the elderly community is quite right that this group is protected so most people can see why keeping kids away from their grandparents forms part of a logical strategy to protect the elderly.

I completely agree with you about the quality of the message - but we don't live in a nanny state - as much as you would like and people have to take individual responsibility for their actions but there also needs to be consequences to those actions

The same science that has shown the rest of Europe that they can open schools.

But hey, who cares, LA dinosaurs know best.

I think we should take advice from Boris and his educational roots on this subject.
Let's get them back in at the same time as Eaton or cambridge?
They have class sizes of around 12 so they should be the first to go back?

Theyve been pretty much open straight through, dealing with 40 kids not 400

And as for this
"Given the vast majority of deaths have occurred within the elderly community is quite right that this group is protected so most people can see why keeping kids away from their grandparents forms part of a logical strategy to protect the elderly."

Thought your perception was that all over 70s just want to get out and live their lives?
So let em get on with it then, let em see their grandkids, children, family, they're part of the generation that "just want to get on with it".

Which is it?

For Year 10 Class sizes will be approximately 10 per room, with pupils going in on staggered days
Not all pupils will attend, schools are aiming to bring under privileged and ones who haven’t kept up with their timetables - this so that everyone gets back to being up to date

Pupils will primarily stay in the same rooms for all their classes with the teachers moving around. If any pupil has to move to another classroom the one they come out of will be cleaned down

All equipment to be cleaned down after any use

All a logistical nightmare, and difficult to see how it will all work out - but as the alternative is to wait for a vaccine something has to be tried

It's perfectly reasonable for a teacher (or anyone else) to have concerns about coming into contact with lots of people who they havent been in contact with for 8 weeks.

Yes, schools have remained open, with very few pupils and they have coped pretty well but, we are talking about something a little different now.
As for teachers and staff working within schools going down with the virus, I actually dont know, do you ?

You do realise the app is only one part of the track and trace system, right? That traditional tried and tested methods will play just as much, if not a bigger part of the operation?

Anyway, cut them some slack. They're recruiting 25,000+ staff to run the operation. To put this in perspective, if this were a new company it would be the 12th largest employer in the UK.

Each of these contact tracer must hold a health or science related degree or have demonstrable equivalent experience or qualifications, and be registered with an appropriate health or science related professional body, and more. Those staff all then need to be trained in traditional means of track & trace as well as the app - which, let's not forget, is being built from scratch - no mean feat in itself. They also need to be trained on the workflows, processes, and approved medical/behaviour advice. They then all need access to the required software and means of communication to run what is basically a massive NHS virtual office/call centre.

I'm not sure if you've even project managed anything, but achieving something on that scale in just a couple of months is basically never done. It doesn't happen. Whether it launches on exactly 1st June isn't crucial, as long as it's around that date - just as hitting precisely 100,000 tests a day isn't really key as long as we're achieving high (and increasing) numbers of tests. I know, of course, you're hoping they'll fail.

It also depends on at least 60% of the wonderful British public downloading the app, which might be a challenge given a) too many just don't pay attention b) too many think they're above things like that c) too many claim to have "privacy concerns" d) too many just don't care e) some simply don't want to know if they should self-isolate f) some idiots won't do it 'cos it's Boris.

The science around kids returning to school in limited numbers is actually pretty robust if anyone cares to listen to the SAGE scientists explaining the roadmap, and the odds of them picking up the virus are very, very low. Do I personally think it's too early? Possibly, especially where there may be a vulnerable person in the family. But I also think the economy needs to start moving in June and the majority of parents cannot be at home if we want that to happen. It's a difficult balance, but with a COVID-experienced NHS using now tried and tested (if limited) treatments with plenty of capacity, and with social-distancing and track & trace as well as other measures in place, any spread should be limited and easier to contain, and that's the goal. That's about the best we can do pre-vaccine. We may yet end up in a spike/lockdown cycle.

The stark and inconvenient truth is that this virus is not going away. Unless we stay locked down until we have a vaccine, we're going to have to open up gradually at some point. The damage will soon overshadow any potential impact of the virus. AZ is hoping to have a vaccine available in September, but we can't put all our eggs on this being a guaranteed solution. We need to work on the basis that this is not going away for a long time and therefore at some point the majority of the population will need to get moving again while mitigating risk as best they can.

The only other solution is that NOBODY leaves their houses for a month except vital NHS workers. Nobody. No cars, no work, no non-essential deliveries, nothing. That way the virus could indeed die out. But that can't - and isn't - going to happen.

I dont disagree with anything that you've posted.
My issue is that once again, The Government (in this case the PM) has promised that "a world beating track and trace system will be up and running for the 1st June" and it bloody well wont, for all of the reasons state in your post.
I'm certainly not suggesting that any of this is simple, in face, quite the opposite but, just as Matt Hancock did with his testing numbers, they are ing before their wee comes out (again).

You will recall that our "world beating system" was supposed to be a mobile app PLUS 20/25,000 trained "trackers".
Many people have said that the app just wont be ready but, our PM is still telling us that its all going to be ready on 1st June - WHY ?

Better to say that the app is coming along well but, wont quite be ready on time but the trackers will be in place and we are making good progress.

This is my main gripe with Boris & Co
Over promising, not delivering and then waffling to cover the partial failure - something that has happened all the way through.

The pattern is clear for everyone to see and was there prior to the Tories gaining power and it doesn't look like honesty matters ??

The vulnerable elderly group will probably not be computer savvy enough anyway to use the tracker. I for one have a basic phone for contacting people & the odd text. All my internet stuff is done on a desk top so is the app available to or even any use to me anyway considering my computer never goes mobile ?

If there had even a few instances we would have known about given this is such a sensitive issue.

I get the concerns but it doesn't stop them going to the supermarket or the garden centre where they will definitely be in contact with people they have never met never mind in the past 8 weeks.

The official UK Prime Minister twitter account has issued some social distancing guidance.

[iKeep 2 metres apart when you go outside. That’s:
1 bed
2 benches
3 fridges
4 chairs[/i

Where do you even start with that???

I'm guessing the fridges are standard household fridges, and not ones big enough for our glorious PM to hide in? Or is this just another Cummings dead cat to distract from something else?

Come on Sal, I'm sure that even you're grasp of the risks are better than you are suggesting here.

Apart from the fact that in the supermarket and garden centre (although not even to most avid gardener visits their garden centre every week), it's a fair bit easier to control the distancing between yourself and others in your immediate proximity and even IF you are close to or brush a person nearby, it's for a fleeting moment, not for several hours in any given day and in a confined space (classroom) and remember it's not just the kids, its all of the people that they may have been in contact with. ie other kids, family members, plus the people that they have been in contact with etc, etc.
You will be well aware that all the usual bugs spread like mad when school terms begin, just as the covid19 will.

The government keep on telling the teachers, unions etc that they are following the science but, when asked to provide detail on the science it doesn't happen ??

If it was so easy and so safe, you or I would say, there you go, you read the "proof" and then crack on but, Boris & Co just cannot be trusted. end of.

Is 2 metres a little too challenging for you? Christ, they try to give you lefties some guidance and you still need your backsides wiping.

Perhaps you could follow the World Health Organisation recommendation, which is 1 metre. Would that make you happier?

I think he is merely quoting what was on Johnson’s twitter account which I think would mainly be read by his supporters. It would suggest therefore that these are the ones who need their bottoms wiping which looking at the average age of the membership is probably quite accurate.

That's simply not true. Teacher's unions have been meeting with SAGE and other scientific advisers to discuss the science and next steps.

The basics of the science have also been touched on at a couple of daily briefings. My recollection is something like this:
1 - everybody should still be taking the recommended measures to minimise spread/risk.
2 - something like 1 in a couple of thousand at the very most currently has CV.
3 - the R0 number is decreasing - slowly, but decreasing. Certainly below 1. That 1 in a couple of thousand is dropping.
4 - not every child will return to school immediately. Those that do will be in small 'bubbles'.
5 - children are VERY, VERY unlikely to be ill with CV19, and statistically are almost certain not to be severely ill or die.
6 - whether children shed as effectively as adults is yet to be confirmed, but numerous studies suggest not.
7 - younger children are extremely unlikely to be mixing with anyone outside the immediate family unit, especially at the moment.

So taking all of the above into account, the odds of a child in the school having CV and of spreading it are very, very low. At very worst they may spread to one or two within a small cluster of children but it seems likely they're not actually that infectious and are far more likely to catch it from an adult. If another child does catch it and takes it home they're probably asymptomatic which seems to reduce their degree of shedding. And if a parent catches it, as long as they are observing social distancing, they shouldn't spread it and the odds of a young parent dying are vanishingly low unless there are serious underlying conditions or by some freak chance. Something like 350 under-45s have died so far through the peak.

Stay away from the elderly and vulnerable and the risks seem fairly insignificant. Of course there are exceptions. I know of a family with one child at risk due to a recent transplant and others with high-risk parents. Some may have grandparents in the family home. Each of these will need to make their own decisions and that's quite correct.

Teachers unions seems to want absolute guarantees, and that simply is not possible. We'd all love guarantees but at some point we're all going to have to go out and get on with it. What's the alternative? Close schools until we have a vaccine?

Of course a lot of the science depends on a percentage following the guidelines and we know that percentage is decreasing. All the models assume a certain number will ignore the restrictions. I just wonder if the scientists realise just how many fckwits are ignoring them.

That's quite the desperate leap in logic. The PM's twitter is very obviously followed by many beyond his supporters, including the entire spectrum of the media who broadcast the message from various angles. Case in point, King Street Cat, who - if he doesn't follow the PM account, has read the message somewhere and felt sufficiently motivated to try and mock it.

As for the elderly you disparagingly refer to, they are far less likely to be on twitter or indeed online than younger sections of the population. Any marketeer knows a twitter message goes overwhelmingly to younger sections of society.

Anyway, I must be mistaken, I was under the distinct impression from the certain sections of the media it was all far too confusing and we're all blithering idiots and therefore bear no personal responsibility for ignoring the restrictions.

Let me ask: do you think the message is confusing? Or do you need me to explain it first?

it shows how well wren' knows people, plenty go to the garden centre every week, often more than once.

I'm happy that I can measure 2 metres. In fact I could accurately measure 2.44 metres to within a millimetre the number of times I've had to measure up for signage.

There will be plenty of people who have no clue about what a metre is. There are still loads who still measure in feet, yards or hands! I'm merely pointing out the level of clarity our current government are operating at, and the fact they're almost treating it like a bit of fun. I don't know whether that infographic is going any further than social media. It's a joke if it is.

Anyway, for all your long winded tweets about how safe schools are for kids, Michael Gove's tweet yesterday (defending the indefensible Cummings) suggested it wasn't a crime to care for your wife and child. The government can't really throw a paddy when parents decide not to send their kids back to school until September. Cummings has created a monster with his infected jaunt to Durham. And as I've already said, the government have well and truly lost the dressing room.

And when you say "I just wonder if the scientists realise just how many fckwits are ignoring them." Do you include Dominic Cummings as one of those fckwits, or is it different for him?

Much of your post centres on the risk to the kids going back to school and everyone would want them to be safe.
However, what about the teaches and support staff etc.

They most certainly could catch the virus from kids returning to school and kids are usually great "spreaders" of bugs and viruses.
I'm sure that like me, you have seen kids picking up all sorts when they return to school after the summer holidays or Christmas break ?