Which source would be credible to you? Which source would you believe?

Quote ="wrencat1873"Just to save me typing page after page, this is the interview with Marr fact checked, by the BBC (not by some bogus Tory twitter site): https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50624056 When you've had time to skim through it, you can let us know at which point Boris actually told the truth, about anything Whether it's him or Cummings or whoever else that is "controlling" their output, it's just wrong.'" I am not defending Johnson all I am saying is Labour is as bad if not worse and you have to attribute the direction of travel to it leader - you somehow think he is an honest broker - he cannot be excluded from all the lies the Labour party is telling. As you say it is just wrong, but you seem to either defend or ignore these Labour lies. In the last week they have jumped on two policies - WASPI and today train costs - neither of which were in their manifesto neither of which have been costed - where does it stop? If Labour continue we wont be taxes they will be rewarding us for working - its bonkers even Stevie Wonder can see that - why can't you?

Quote ="wrencat1873"Just to save me typing page after page, this is the interview with Marr fact checked, by the BBC (not by some bogus Tory twitter site): https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50624056 When you've had time to skim through it, you can let us know at which point Boris actually told the truth, about anything Whether it's him or Cummings or whoever else that is "controlling" their output, it's just wrong.'" I am not defending Johnson all I am saying is Labour is as bad if not worse and you have to attribute the direction of travel to it leader - you somehow think he is an honest broker - he cannot be excluded from all the lies the Labour party is telling. As you say it is just wrong, but you seem to either defend or ignore these Labour lies. In the last week they have jumped on two policies - WASPI and today train costs - neither of which were in their manifesto neither of which have been costed - where does it stop? If Labour continue we wont be taxes they will be rewarding us for working - its bonkers even Stevie Wonder can see that - why can't you?

Labour wont win but, if/when the Tories win, we will be heading for a no deal Brexit at the end of 2020 which, may be ok if you are Farage or, on the right of the Tory Party but, this would be the worst of all outcomes.
Of course, the EU will be blamed, the Tories and Boris in particular are exceptional at blaming others for their own problems but, this wont change where we are heading.
The only way that this wont be the case is, if the EU cave in during the negotiations and that just wont happen.

Oh yes and the UK will be in recession at that point, bringing further austerity, rising crime etc, etc - you know, like we've seen over the past 10 years.

This is one of the great ironies. The Conservative party demand everyone in the country take personal responsibility for each individual's actions and the consequences arising from them.

But as soon as it comes to the party owning their record, the disaster of Brexit and the tragic state of our public services they point fingers all over the place. It's never their fault.

I think you are correct - nobody to blame but May and her team - she really screwed things up - she was out negotiated, easily done when you don't have any conviction in what you are trying to achieve.

You can't blame Boris for what he inherited in respect of Brexit - it was a complete car crash. Add to that a parliament that had 70% remainers including a host of Tories and you have an almost impossible task of achieving anything but a very soft Brexit.

Johnson was part of the car crash. They had the numbers to get the deal through but failed because of Johnson and the ERG.

I don't share your negativity - maybe because I think we are a pretty innovative nation and business will always find a way. Nobody including the EU want a no deal Brexit and a solution will be found provided the Tories have sufficient majority to control parliament.

If Labour get in there will be some huge problems - as a nation we are heavily reliant on individual debt - even a small rise in interest rates combined with higher personal taxation will see a huge issue in the housing market - people simply will not be able to pay their mortgages. It isn't possible to fund all the give-aways that Labour propose by just taxing the rich and companies. It will impact ordinary people earning especially low earners.

The only time it came close - the third time Johnson voted for it - just remind me how many Labour MPs voted against it, they had vowed to support the result of the referendum?

Given the circumstances of the deal negotiations I doubt anyone could have done anything better - it had disaster written all over it. Boris' deal is just the best of a really bad job.

Johnson deal is the same with one exception, May would not condone a border in Ireland unfortunately Johnson is quite happy to do so and even lie about its impact.
I note Johnson in lieu of the interview with Andrew Neil he is to be interviewed by Philip Schofield.

Might as well be Gordon the Gopher, then they can speak nonsense to each other
Gordon "squeaks"
Johnson "yes, I know but, lets just look at the last 120 days"
Gordon "squeak"
Johnson babbles on and on and on with his pre rehed sound bites.

As I said he inherited a bag of spanners and he had a parliament that was working against him - his own fault by the way.

Shows he is a bit cleverer than Corbyn then - let's face it Neil's sole purpose is to make everyone look bad no matter who.

Brexit is "a bag of spanners", trying to deliver the impossible (leaving the EU & Customs union and a free trade agreement, whilst not driving a bus through the good Friday agreement etc, etc) and having failed to meet all of the criteria, N. Ireland, due to it's low population numbers and the minimal damage to Tory aspirations, has been thrown under the bus - Johnson is still in denial about the need for any customs checks, despite the fact that there is a direct border with Eire (the EU) - allowing people and goods to move "freely" in that part of the UK.
As I've already said, the free trade deal wont get through and we will end up leaving with no deal, which WILL put the skids under all of Johnsons spending pledges.

At least he will have secured blue passports and Freeports when we leave.

This is a popular lie with the right wing media. In Labours 2017 manifesto they said they would support a Brexit that offered the benefits of remaining in the CU and the SM. So, as Johnsons deal didnt provide those benefits, they were quite within their rights to reject it.

You'll never get our resident Tories to admit that the failure to get the Brexit deals through was anything other than their own fault. The opposition has no responsibility to get a relatively hard Brexit like the May deal through - it went against their 2017 manifesto and doesn't meet their own base requirements.

Which Donal Trump do we believe ?
"Everything is on the table"
or
"Wouldn't want the NHS if it was handed over on a silver platter"

Let's just think about this one for a nano second

The Tory press have lapped up his new quote though and it's front page news in all of the right wing press.
I wonder if Boris has now suggested removing "Pharma" from the future trade agreement - I dont think so.

Oh come on. Remaining in The CU and SM isn't leaving the EU. Even you and Corbyn must realise that. So therefore, no they didn't support leaving under any reasonable circumstances

And therein lies the problem of Brexit, way too many versions of the "same thing" and everything was going to be so easy

I said it all along and consistently on here - no deal was the only way to do Brexit. Anything else would be a fudge and a completely mess. Having somebody negotiate whose heart is not in it was a fatal flaw - but May had a very inflated opinion of her abilities - you would have thought the 2017 election campaign would have taught her a lesson but no. On she went in an almost masochistic humiliation. It is exactly the position Labour are in - nobody wants to leave so how are they going to negotiate a deal with the EU? and who in the Labour party is going to campaign for leave?

On Ireland if they want to start shooting each other so be it - we allow killing in East London as a means of containing gang violence into a small area. I appreciate that is not very woke but I doubt many on here really care about gang killings in London. The country is awash with class A drugs - the police have an agreement with the gangs and it stops wars - do any of us really bother that our kids are taking class A drugs every weekend - its miniscule number of kids that get killed using these drugs. Wokeness is a blight on society and commands far too much attention from the likes of Momentum and high profile lefties such as Owen Jones and Ash Sarkar.

Let's have a look at Labour's six base requirements - which were
1. Does it deliver the exact same benefits as currently we have in the SM & CU
2. Does it ensure a strong future relationship with the EU
3. Does it ensure fair migration across the EU
4. Does it defend rights and protections
5. Does it protect national security
6. Does it deliver for all regions/nations in the UK

What does that suggest - remain is the only way of delivering the above - so let's not kid anyone that Labour wanted to observe the result of the referendum. Anyone who thinks it is otherwise is as disingenuous as the Labour offer in their manifesto to support the result of the referendum - they had no intention and have demonstrated such at every opportunity. 90%+ of all Labour MPs voted to remain.

I know that you have posted some of this previously, although I done ever remember you advocating a "no deal" Brexit and acceptance of WTO terms etc - I thought that you were more in the "Germany will need to sell their Mercs" camp but, no problem.

However, your stance on N.Ireland is utterly ridiculous.
The UK signed up to the Good Friday Agreement, which, you and the Tories are now throwing on the bonfire.
I dont know how old you are but, I dont think you are a "kid" and to suggest that a return to the troubles of the 70's and 80's, in order to deliver Brexit is quite vulgar.
It would send a clear message to ALL of the people in N. Ireland that The UK Government doesn't give a toss about their plight and give a green light to the "paramilitaries" on both sides to start killing each other and lets not forget that the troubles weren't isolated to the border towns of Ireland - I'm sure that you will remember the bombings in Brighton and Warrington - sorry but, to give the "ok" to a repeat of this is abhorrent and you really should think a little harder before advocating such stuff.

So the whole country should suffer so a few religious nuts wont kill each other, really. They can't even form their own parliament why do we give these idiots any credence whatsoever - as I said we allow gang killings every week in East London I don't see you complaining. Why is Ireland a special case? We have an example of yet another Islam-related killing last week yet we think its unacceptable to criticise - if we do we are labelled racists, again why should Ireland be such a special case? Why should this miniscule minority its issues hold us all back?

Who is to say it will return or that the Good Friday agreement will stop a repeat - let's face it as soon as the Catholics have ascendency in the north the protestants will be second class citizens and violence will commence once again. They can't even have a democratic assembly.