He had a gun with him, which probably means he wasn't nipping out for a pint of milk. The officer knew he had a gun, but didn't know what he was holding wasn't the gun and shot him. Duggan was a criminal who was probably out on some form of criminal activity (or why take a gun) and paid the price for his stupidity. With all the recent gun incidents around the country I cannot blame the copper for his actions, if he had hesitated and it WAS a gun we would be discussing the death of a police officer, not a scumbag, the difference being there probably wouldn't have been so much outcry for a copper over a criminal.

I for one am comfortable with the officers actions and the jury's decision.

X2.
I also ask myself what would have happened with the views of his 'supporters' under different circumstances? For example if he had shot and wounded or even killed a police officer before being shot himself? Would they still be claiming "Execution"?
(If so, who's?)
We'd be discussing 2 deaths now, not just a scumbag's.

This guys only worth to society is keeping Policeman, Solicitors, Judges and Prison Guards employed, good riddance, it's saved me a few pounds in tax.

Well we will never know will we, not least because that never happened.
Let's stick to what did happen shall we?
Or allegedly happened.

Sounds confusing, probably because it was a very confusing scenario, and just a tad tense too.

I think most sensible people understand that a firearms officer doesn't get second chances or that its not like a computer game or a cowboy film, you see what you think you see and you have one or two seconds to respond (if that).

Its well known that at the scene of any accident/incident if you have four witnesses then you'll get four very different versions of what happened which is partly due to individuals processing powers at the time, when in panic mode we see/do things that sometimes don't even exist and its alright saying that this was a highly trained police officer who should know better but he is human and if he thinks he saw a gun in a sock for one second being lifted towards him then that is what he thinks he saw regardless of what it was or wasn't, he relies on trained instinct and shoots first because he is the one who has identified himself as the firearms officer and he is the one who is going to be a target.

Ultimately in a responsible society you are responsible for your own behaviour, if you want to be a part of a criminal gang and you want to carry guns and you don't care that lots of other people know (as he didn't seem to) then you have made your bed and are gambling that the armed police officer that you come across one day (inevitably) won't shoot you to protect himself and others because on the rare occasions that they do, they always complete the job.

When we start being comfortable offing people because they are scumbags and we are scared of them and they were probably off to do some crime. We are in a whole heap of .

So we let them commit the crime and off the copper BEFORE we do anything. I prefer the dead scumbag to the dead copper.

Why??.... Personally, I think it would be a good start if we had organised armed squads actually offing scum like Duggan (like the Northern Ireland hit squads that were recently outed).

Nothing riles me more than when you hear about characters being referred to as known gangsters/ drug dealers/general scum, yet they are allowed to strut about with no threat of comeuppance - More no nonsense policing like the Duggan case would be appreciated by the majority of the British public.

Totally flawed logic. Every country has it's success stories regardless what it's rated as. First world problems are still problems and shouldn't be brushed off with statements like this.

Tough choosing between Nike and Adidas isn't it. Would you have been happier being born in North Korea?
You won the lottery of life when you were born. Don't waste it.

You then turn us into Mexico

I don't feel sorry for him but actually targetting and killing criminals makes us a little bit Mega City One.

You do know you're talking to a man who hit himself with a brick don't you?

Yes. The self-imposed handicaps were why I said top 10% rather than top 5%

In hindsight, it comes across as extreme and I apologise for any offence - However, it does anger me when people try to make martyrs out of people who deserve absolutely no pity.

Rather than being concerned that the police may have gone OTT, we should actually be quite relieved that there is one less vermin on the streets of Britain.

I've read some wonderful stories about people overcoming adversity in North Korea. You should give Barbara Demicks 'Nothing to Envy' a read sometime.

When it comes to analogies to where people are born, I rather like what George Carlin once said:

Can you summarise it for me?


Where would you have preferred to have been born?

Quote ="Damo-Leeds"I've read some wonderful stories about people overcoming adversity in North Korea. You should give Barbara Demicks 'Nothing to Envy' a read sometime. '" I've skimmed it here nothingtoenvy.com/nothing-to-envy-excerpt// I guess you feel pretty lucky you had the head start of not having to overcome those adversities?

Quote ="Damo-Leeds"I've read some wonderful stories about people overcoming adversity in North Korea. You should give Barbara Demicks 'Nothing to Envy' a read sometime. '" I've skimmed it here nothingtoenvy.com/nothing-to-envy-excerpt// I guess you feel pretty lucky you had the head start of not having to overcome those adversities?

It's a book about people's lives in North Korea. Barbara Demick interviewed a number of Asylum Seeker from the north who are now living in the south. It covers both good and bad things that happened in these peoples lives.

Being born in 1990 would have been a lot better as been involved with four decades makes me feel old. What this has got to do with Mark Duggan I don't really know. Maybe time to get back on topic?

I know what it's about. I was looking for a summary.



Your first sentance didn't make any sense to me


We are kind of on-topic with Mark Duggan, you feeling he was forced into his outlaw lifestyle, due to the bad luck of being living in a country with one of the best lifestyles and best opportunities for success in the world


I'm more bothered about the family agitating more trouble.

It was a play on words. Think about it..


This part of the world has the best lifestyles and best opportunities for success for some people but not for everyone. This is how this capitalist system works where the likes of Mark Duggan have to find other avenues to earn a living. Not everyone is going to be a squeaky clean success.

Last thing I heard was the family spokeswoman calling for peace.

I have. It still makes no sense. You could clarify, or answer the question. Or could do neither.



Why do you think all other avenues were closed to Mark Duggan?
Is there a part of the world that's better for that? I didn't say everyone would be a squeaky clean success.

Last I heard was the family calling "No peace without justice" and giving a nazi-esque one fist salute.

Fair enough, but Duggan and his apologists can't be shocked when the police seemingly break the rules, in a response to them themselves breaking society's rules.

Many people are disadvantaged by the capitalist system, the vast majority don't resort to playing games with guns and drugs.

This is a human life we're talking about.

No it's not, he's dead. And good riddance.

Spare me the bleeding heart cr*p. He and his little gangsta buddies wouldn't think twice about slotting or cutting you if they took a shine to your mobile, watch, wallet, car or whatever. I've no problem with him meeting a perforated end.