Quite right.

The only reason that I voted for my current MP is because he proved in the previous parliament that he actually does work and campaign for his constituency, the colour of the flag of convenience that he sails under is not a concern of mine (its yellow), the only fact that I look at is the fact that he works hard, he tweets his day to day involvement in the constituency and when he is up here he puts himself around the constituency with at least eight different "surgeries" per month in different areas.

What his party flag stands for is not a concern of mine and he is not shy to speak out against his own party and certainly the other parties - he's one of the good guys.

Quote ="Ajw71"The rich pay enough. Tax them any more and you will get what is happening in France, all the rich people leaving / wanting to leave.'" This is, in part, why a number of Californian cities have declared themselves bankrupt and are unable to pay the pensions of former employees. Half of all net income taxes were paid by the top 1%. When enough of them moved, the whole system collapsed. The idea that no overall contribution should be made by a large proportion of the population is not sustainable. You simply cannot run an economy on that basis. Still...no need for society to trouble itself with tough economic questions when we can discuss more interesting things. Like if someone called someone else a pleb, and what type of train ticket the chancellor had when he boarded a train. Anyone remember Cherie Blair and a very similar incident? news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/597734.stm

Quote ="Ajw71"The rich pay enough. Tax them any more and you will get what is happening in France, all the rich people leaving / wanting to leave.'" This is, in part, why a number of Californian cities have declared themselves bankrupt and are unable to pay the pensions of former employees. Half of all net income taxes were paid by the top 1%. When enough of them moved, the whole system collapsed. The idea that no overall contribution should be made by a large proportion of the population is not sustainable. You simply cannot run an economy on that basis. Still...no need for society to trouble itself with tough economic questions when we can discuss more interesting things. Like if someone called someone else a pleb, and what type of train ticket the chancellor had when he boarded a train. Anyone remember Cherie Blair and a very similar incident? news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/597734.stm

Which government department was she in charge of?

And nothing to do with a race to the bottom on property taxes, labour laws and corporation tax then?

So if you had a BNP MP who sorted out some local issues to your satisfaction you wouldn't care he was allied to the BNP? No? Thought not.

He won't be one of the good guys for the simple fact he [uhas[/u aligned himself to a party flag and because of what that means at this point in time i.e. what his party is doing with his active support. He is not anything like as independent as you may think or are suggesting here because I can virtually guarantee he has never defied the whip even though I don't know who he is.

He has taken the Lib Dem whip so therefore in my book he is definitely one of the bad guys given what has party is facilitating in the coalition government.

Has he defied the party whip on the NHS and did he vote against the tuition fee increases? Does he have any kind of ministerial position (which would prevent him from opposing any government policy or he would have to resign that position however junior it may be)?

He is by definition as bad as all the rest of his Lib Dem colleagues as they wave through Tory policies precisely because he has aligned himself to that particular flag.

The fact he isn't an independent member of parliament free from a party whip means the flag he flies under matters a great deal despite what he may do locally. So long as parliament is organised on party lines this will be the case.

Given there is nothing to say an opposition MP would not work equally as hard locally if they were elected then if you vote for this guy again given his undoubted active support for this governments policies (assuming you oppose most of them) you are IMO off your rocker.

Anyone who voted Lib Dem last time especially if they had a hard working local MP can be excused given what they put in their manifesto but to vote for them again? Madness.

But isn't she a QC, probably in the best position to know what is right and wrong, she's probably even more worldly wiser than Osborne.

Or she's just human?

Absolutely, but in the context of this thread, it's irrelevant. She wasn't telling us that we're all in together when practicing the opposite and, from the linked report, appears to have been mortified by the whole thing (quite possibly because of the bad publicity and getting caught rather than the offence itself) whereas George is in charge of the nation's purse strings, and doesn't appear to have learnt from his first try at this.

It's not the biggest issue around, but there are a couple of things that make it worth noting/illustrate something.

1) If it happened once, then the claim of it being an error would be plausible. But it seems that it has happened more than once.

2) It was the person at the centre of this who decreed that MPs should use standard class.

So there's the suggestion of a sense of entitlement – and an element of 'do as I say, not do as I do'.

The second point (and possibly the first) can also be said of the new expenses revelations about some MPs from both sides of the house.

It's all all the more grating because of the whole austerity agenda and the 'we're all in it together'.

You have completely missed the point. Mistakes are things like forgetting your ticket. As an MP he is supposed to sit in standard class. The fact he wouldn't whether he was willing to pay the upgrade or not, that is the issue. Why? Because it gives us a clue about his character and attitude. As did the comments Mitchell made when calling the police plebs.

It's very often the little things people do when they think no one is watching that tells us what people are really like and what they stand for.

I'm not actually bothered whether he travels first class or standard class, it's the attempt to travel first class without paying for it that is the issue. Especially when he and his party so regularly attack benefits and welfare recipients as irresponsible. That £160 he tried to avoid paying is more than 2 weeks dole money for those irresponsible dole scroungers that he and his party blame for the deficit and that dole money he is desperately trying to reduce. Also the comment "he couldn't possibly travel standard class" does him no favours.

I would also say that Jerry's MP is a good one who does appear to genuinely try and help his constituents with problems they have, and also has been pivotal in helping setup rugby league clubs. And has regularly voted against his party on things like the Health & Social Care Bill and Welfare Reform. I think as far as MP's can he tries to do what he thinks is right. I'd happily trade my Tory MP for Jerry's Liberal MP.

Its highly unlikely that a BNP politician would sort out local issues to my satisfaction and so in that respect the answer to your hypothetical question is no and the principle of my selection of candidate stands.



You've just underlined what I said previously, in the last parliament he was in opposition and he worked just as hard in this constituency on local issues, in this parliament he is part of the ruling majority and he is still in the constituency most every weekend working for local community groups, doing his surgeries, updating anyone who wants to be on his emailing lists with what he has done this week, updating live on Twitter with what local function he is currently attending, etc, etc

Bottom line is that I know exactly what he is doing on my behalf as my representative in parliament every day of the week, today he is working with the Big Energy Saving Week group (whoever the hell they are) and he is, as I type, trying to get a question in with the Health Minister in a commons debate, I suspect its regarding the Leeds Childrens Heart Unit campaign that he is vociferously supporting, last night he was hosting a charity called Whizzkids at The Commons...

Do you know as much about your local MP as I do, I can tell you what he is doing right now...

Yes he'll get my vote again next time and I genuinly don't care about the colour flag he sails under, only about what he will do for us as a constituency.

^

Wot he said.

It is duly noted you have completely ignored everything I said about what his party affiliation actually means. It means support for the destruction of the NHS for one thing.

As you know so much about him how often has he voted against the government on issues such as the NHS? Policies I assume you oppose yourself?

And by the way MP's from all parties support the Leeds Children's Heart Unit campaign. It will be interesting to see, due to your MP's support for the NHS reforms, just how care for children with chronic conditions is affected by that regardless of the outcome of this campaign.

You seem a tad confused as to what you are voting for in a general election. This MP sounds as if he'd make a fine local councillor but you are completely ignoring that if you vote for him again at a general election [iwhat[/i you will actually be voting for. It won't be to save the Leeds children's heart unit. It will be for the polices his party supports at national level regardless of what he does in his constituency whether you want to acknowledge that or not.

The idea we can vote for our local MP because he or she is a good egg and nothing else matters is a truly head in the sand approach.

You simply can not divorce what he does locally from what his party affiliation means nationally. Which of course means locally for us all.

yes, you seem so sure about what would have happened.

if, before the last election there were 0 free schools, then after the election, had labour won, there would still be 0 free schools so how would it be lower? not sure how many more academies, built by the likes of rod aldridge, labour donor and capita bod. obviously i'm not suggesting capita got lots of government contracts by donating a few bob to them. the same G4S that provided security for the labour party conference? yes, ed m would be booting them into touch quick smart!


ah right, because after 2010, the worlds economies bounced right back, especially europe where the germans most certainly haven't been doling out the cash left right and centre to basket case economies. here's a quick question, as unemployment continues to fall and we do emerge from this recession (because we will), will that be down to the coalition policies? oh, it went up by approx 200k. you give governments far too much credit to bring/end recessions, they just hope to god they're not in power when the inevitable fall hits.

oh, i've no doubts they receive lots of it, i'm sure they squirrel away masses of it in offshore accounts, all perfectly legally too. yet, they still stump up over a quarter of the income tax collected. fair play to 'em. and, to really top it off, they don't seem to shop at the local 'independent garage', think of the vat they pay on an aston martin whereas i bet i paid precisely bugger all vat on the £650 car i bought. i reckon their telly's might cost a bit more than mine too. now, you are absolutely correct on the whole energy, food and water as we all live in little 2 up 2 downs, if only these selfish swine had huge country piles that take an inordinate amount of energy to heat, perhaps a city place too. to suggest they don't pay their 'fair share' is, quite frankly, laughable


is that all, 10 points? really. despite vaste swathes of the country being laid waste? christ, the tories will take that all day long with a couple of years still to and election.

so, if you voted labour in 2010, you were actually endorsing their decision to screw the poorest in society with the abolition of the 10p tax rate? lets, hope these heartless swine aren't banging on about tory cuts.

I like you. You're about as clueless as Ajw.
There are currently over 70 free schools. If Labour had been in there would have been 0. That is lower privatisation. As is fewer police functions privatised and no NHS commissioning groups which you conveniently ignored.

It's difficult to compare to European economies due to the restrictions of the Euro. The US however, was quickly into growth thanks to a fiscal stimulus.
Hmmm well Labour brought us out of one, then the Tories took us into one AFTER the causes of the global recession. That's not global/non-governmental effects, that's caused by government policies.
I don't pretend the government can hold back the global economic tides, but they can mitigate their effects. Labour did that to some degree. This government failed to do that.

As for tax - how much of the UK's income do the top 1% receive? How much of the UK's wealth do they own? Until you answer those questions the proportion of income tax they pay is irrelevant.
You really are making a fool of yourself now. It is accepted by every economic body that VAT is regressive, the last figures I saw was that poorer people paid 9.4% of their income compared to 4.8% of the top 10%'s income in VAT. As I said, that's not taking into account other regressive items such as energy, water etc so a quarter of income tax take is quite generous for the richest 1% of the country. They should be grateful to live in a country that provides them with the conditions to make such huge sums of money.

You obviously have no idea, 10 points is quite a large lead and would lead to a Labour majority of over 120 seats in parliament. As the Tories poll figures have been on a downward trend and being split apart by UKIP, it's worrying for the Tories. I see you have as much idea about polls as Ajw does. I'm sure Wikipedia can explain it all for you.

Not at all confused and not at all disappointed by his beliefs and voting record either because he is never afraid to address and explain his voting record online when challenged.

Lets be perfectly honest here, the policies that the LibDems are currently cow-towing to are nothing like the policies that they promoted in their general election campaign, and nor for that matter are the Conservatives.

I'm not a Lib-Dem supporter, I detest the nature of party politics which reduces parliament and its supporters to nothing less than a football crowd mentality where everything that "they" do is intrinsically wrong and everything that "we" do is by definition absolutely wonderful - thats bull politics.

To put it very simply, he is the only MP that I have known in the almost 40 years of my polling card to be so accessible and willing to explain exactly what it is he is doing every day of the week.

Do you know what your MP did today ?

I do.

Stop Press !

My MP today secured a debate on Nov 1st on the beer duty escalator, triggered by a CAMRA epetition and backed by the Hobgoblin brewery, its a topic that he feels very strongly about and always supports and promotes local micro breweries, barely a week goes by that he is not promoting or debating some issue within the brewing industry - currently engaged in a battle with PubCo regarding their tenancy agreements.

Do you know what your MP did today ?

I do.

That's my view in a nutshell

It doesn't matter what the polls say, my opinion is the only one that matters and if every poll you produce goes against my opinion, then my opinion is still more valid.

Isn't that how polls work....



Cringeworthy...

Correct. The economy is now starting to pick up, as will be confirmed on Thursday. 10 point lead will evaporate.

If not an army of home insulators should do the trick.

I expect mine (also a LimpDem) will have squeezed his fat ar[is[/ie into his usual place on the extreme right of the front bench (left as you look on the telly) and done what he usually does: look totally bored and uninterested.

That 10 point difference will widen once the 2013 cuts start to hit the most vulnerable in the country. Today even the tory who dreamed up the Poll Tax (Bernard Jenkin), has warned the government that they face similar unrest if they push ahead with their proposed changed to council tax relief, citing that they will be targeting those least able to contribute.

It couldn't have got much worse and were are only back to somewhere near where we were when they took office and they haven't even scratched the deficit.

Plenty of time for that 10 point lead to turn into a 15-20 point lead.

Why don't you search Wikipedia to find some ridiculous polls to back up your point? In the meantime I'll stick with the average of polls that shows a 10 point lead and a significant majority for Labour. You know these are actually polls that people respect and take note of. They're not a couple of historians opinions, they're polls that compiled by professional polling organisations, with statistically significant samples, demographic distribution, and accurate weightings.

But then you wouldn't know about such things, to you every poll is equal. Which is like saying Milford u8's are the same ability as Leeds first team. They're all rugby players after all.