he was an idiot to single out one individual, I agree, but it isn't just Conservatives that enjoy a questionable tax status, see Bono for details.

I don't think anyone has ever suggested it was. The reason people are singling out Conservatives is to highlight Cameron's hypocrisy. It wouldn't be a very strong argument if they were saying, "Oi, Cameron, what about Tony Blair? He's uses 'tax efficiency' schemes too."

You don't seem to be getting the point. When a [iTory[/i Prime Minister decides to publicly criticise an individual over their tax affairs then quite understandably the focus falls on his fellow [iTories[/i - particularly those he is either close to or has defended/refused to comment on in the past. This doesn't exonerate anyone else - Cameron has made a rod for his own back here.

I also assume that you think Cameron criticised Carr out of jealousy? After all that's the only reason rich folk get criticised at all in your book, isn't it?

no, Cameron criticised Carr to try and gain some popular support.

In general people criticise those better off than them because of jealousy, or some other self interest, like bemoaning their kids having to pay for their education.

Agreed.
As I said earlier in the thread, another bandwagon passing, he jumps on board.
He thinks we're all thick.


Envy is the word you are seeking here, I think, not jealousy.
As Dally will no doubt confirm, envy is the sin, jealousy isn't.



Either way you are talking generalised bollox.
My attitudes to taxation are not based on envy, I see people worse off than me paying more tax than those better-off then me and that is plain wrong, absolutely feck-all to do with envy (or what you call jealousy).
You are not alone, there are others who frequent this board who can't grasp that fair-mindedness is not the same as envy, who can't understand any motive other than self interest.
Your view says more about the way you think than it does about those you criticise.

there are way more people who frequent this board that are envious of people who have achieved more than they have, who point to them having more opportunity.

Sin Bin has become a mouthpiece for the left, you only need look to the moderators/admin to see this is so, there is no balance, but maybe that reflects rugby fans in general, working class, little or no aspiration beyond making ends meet and a fortnight in benidorm as a holiday.

it's a sad reflection of british society, people would rather punish the successful than strive themselves.

Well done - you've managed to accept that at least [ione[/i individual can have a range of reasons to criticise well-off folk.


A totally rubbish generalisation. Par for the course for you on this subject, mind. Not everyone on the planet is motivated by greed and self-interest only, as you appear to be.

These sweeping generalisations are fun, aren't they?

I can tell you one thing Kosh, you're a lefty who wants everyone else to pay for you and yours to do as you please

Moreover, you take what little self esteem you have from having a green username, as has been evidenced ad nauseum on the FC board over the years.

get over it, some people are way more important, qualified and intelligent than you or I will ever be.

What a load of sanctimonious, condescending twaddle

Even whilst taking the discussion towards a different topic, you are still generalising.
But hey-ho, let's do it that way ... do you really believe that poor people paying more tax than rich people is fair?

No, I don't, but it's legal, and Labour did nothing about it.

nor do I agree with a lot of other things this government is HAVING to do because of the storm Blurgh and Brownose left behind, but it is necessary.

Oh dear. Is that really the best you can come up with? It does reveal your core values though - feck everyone else as long as I'm OK.

They've gone way beyond what's necessary.

You decided to have kids, not me, nor anyone else, so why should I pay for them?

laugh all you like, I know I am right, it's a sad man that has a family and then expects everyone else to look after them, h/s are the only creatures on the planet that expect such indulgence from their species.

Wow. That surpasses even the best of your bollox.

what a surprise, the lefty old git from the coast doesn't agree

maybe you can tell us how wistfully better it was in your time?

I didn't realise Standee paid for Kosh's kids. That's very generous of him.

I'm not quite sure why you feel any of this is relevant, but anyway...

I pay for my kids. I also pay for other people's kids. I [ialso[/i pay for lots of things I don't use, most of which are available to folk with or without kids. Unlike you I don't begrudge this, despite being in an income bracket where I receive feck-all from the state without being well-off enough to have cash to burn.

What I believe in is a society that works together for the benefit of all. Having an educated population is a key part of making a modern society function so it follows that I feel that education should be free. I'd feel the same regardless of whether I had kids or not or what level of education they might attain. I'd also point out that recent research shows that the state receives significantly more cash from graduates over their working lifetime than it costs to educate them, so it's a net gain for everyone.

To get back on topic, maybe if all the rich wasters and corporations who currently avoid taxation at every available (legal) opportunity actually paid their fair share we'd be able to afford a 1st class free education system.

He's often late with the cheques, mind. Forgets to put stamps on the envelopes as well.

As I said, it's a matter of interpretation. It may currently be illegal. The fact that the promoters have will almost certainly have taken legal opinion that it is legal does not mean that it is.

Hardly a pensioner at 45 =#FF0000STANDEE. It wasn't any better mate. I left school under a Thatcher government who were ideologically trying to feck the fabric of our society. Fast forward and deja vu!

=#FF0000Edit BG - Do not use real names on the board if a poster uses a fictitious one.

deluded, and that is being polite

I know of at least one Labour bigwig that does. But that is confidential information.

I think that post is a sad reflection of you.

Speaking for myself I can categorically state that I hold no envy whatsoever of people who have achieved more material and financial means than myself, none whatsoever.

This time last week I was spending four days at one of the most wealthy parts of The Algarve surveying two homes, one of which I know for a fact cost ten million euros (I was with the architect), and the other which was bigger and better located, I didn't bother asking how much that one had cost, I'm guessing fifteen to twenty mill.

Was I envious or jealous ? Not at all.

Would I swap places with those people ? In all seriousness probably not.

I know who the clients were and I know what they do for a living and I know what their responsibilities are, not for all the tea in China or all of the trillions of euros on the Vale Do Lobo estate would I swap places with them, not for one minute.

Would they swap places with me, I think they possibly would you know, the architect, who I have known for 44 years remarked while we were away just how relaxed I am these days since I shook off all of my business responsibilities for an ordinary day job and I had to agree with him - the pursuit of wealth is not the most important thing in life, its not even in the top ten.