Quote ="Rock God X"Has Qatada even been convicted of a crime?'"
In April 1999 he was convicted in Jordan (in his absence) of conspiracy to cause explosions and sentenced to life imprisonment. He applied for asylum here on the grounds he'd been tortured by the Jordanians and got it in 1994.
In 2000 in Jordan he was again convictyed, again in his absence, of conspiracy and got another 15 year sentence.
He is likely to be re-tried for these alleged offences if deported and is keen to avoid facing the charges.
In 2005 he was served with a notice of intention to deport him to Jordan on the ground that he was a threat to national security. Whilst he challenged the finding, he did NOT advance any positive case that he was NOT a threat to national security. So, not even he thinks he isn't.
In dismissing his appeal against deportation, the SIAc found that he:
"… [ihas given advice to many terrorist groups and individuals, whether formally a spiritual adviser to them or not. His reach and the depth of his influence in that respect is formidable, even incalculable. It is not a coincidence that his views were sought by them. He provides a religious justification for the acts of violence and terror which they wish to perpetrate; his views legitimised violent attacks on civilians, terrorist group attacks more generally, and suicide bombings. He may have spoken against some grosser excesses, but that does not go very far. Even if his views are sometimes couched in careful language, their import is clear to those who take notice of what he says and know how to interpret it. His views, scholarly in any conventional sense or not, are important to extremists seeking to justify violence.[/i"
So the reason for deportation isn't because he has comitted any offence, but because of the above. He supports and encourages blowing people up, and his word is held in high regard by those who may do such things. The simplistic view that he "has not been convicted of any offence" is utterly irrelevant to this discussion.
The current decision rests on whether the Jordanians would use against him evidence obtained by torture. Jordanian law does not permit evidence found to have been obtained involuntarily to be admitted, but it does require the defendant to prove that the statements given to the Prosecutor, which are most likely to be at issue in his case, have been obtained in that way.
Our courts seemingly sensibly held that the fact that under Jordanian law, statements to a Prosecutor which might have been obtained by prior duress are not excluded, because they have not been shown to have been so obtained, does not make the trial unfair. To uphold Qatada's objections is to hold that the Jordanians would not uphold their own laws in relation to this. The point is, if Qatada had evidence that any of the evidence against him HAD been obtained by torture, then under Jordanian law, it would be inadmissible.
So as matters stand and flying in the face of the sensible ruling on this point of our courts, the general position seems to be that he can't be deported because if he was, and IF he was re-tried for these offences, evidence against him (which by definition neither he nor anyone can yet know what it would be) would have been obtained by torture, AND that if he could provide evidence that such hypothetical evidence had been obtained by torture, the Jordanians would not uphold their own legal system but would admit it anyway.
This seems to me to be barking mad. We seem to have a whole bunch of experts on the forum intimately familiar with how Jordan runs its legal system, but surely we can't make decisions on the basis that whatever they say, and even without knowing what case may be brought, much less what evidence the Jordanians may adduce, they are lying, because whatever it is, it WILL have been obtained by torture, and that if the defendant has evidence of this, such evidence WILL be rejected.
The decision thus seems to condemn the entire Jordanian justice system as institutionally bound to flout its own laws and procedures and convicts it of proposing to adduce evidence obtained by torture without even knowing what that evidence is, whilst simultaneously assuming that if there was any evidence of obtaining such evidence by torture, the Jordanians would routinely flout more laws and just reject this.
