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| Quote ="Scooter Nik"
Yes, middle lane hoggers, ditherers and the rest are a problem, but they're nowhere near as much of an issue as spotty little herberts in souped up rotboxes thinking they can become the next Formula 1 champion by practicing on main roads.
'"
Would that it were just (or even primarily) young kids in their souped-up Corsas. Every bit as dangerous are the 30+ year old dick'eads in their Audi/BMW penis extensions driving like they own the road and gambling with the lives of other road users.
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| Another "modification" that should lead to a crushing is the fitting of "de-cat" pipes on the misguided thinking that by avoiding the flow-through catalytic convertor, they are somehow improving performance. Completely ignoring the fact that the engine manufacturer has spent $ millions optiising the engine and mangement system to work at peak efficiency WITH a cat. Remove it and you immediately lower engine back pressure which is not always a good thing.
For some unfathomable reason the UK still has a derrogation from EU regs on aftermarket exhaust systems and silencers
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| Quote ="McLaren_Field"As most of my driving is now commuting and not driving to appointments any more I admit that I now drive much slower than I used to, speed cameras and three convictions (ok, not convictions, I dobbed myself in) have done that, but I'm constantly tail gated by other vehicles when driving at or very close to the speed limit who through either aggression or complete lack of knowledge are driving so close to my car that they wouldn't even have time to hit the brakes if I had to make an emergency stop.
'"
I'm fed up with it. I'm doing lots of motorway miles at the moment (it's that or flying), I just move out of the way, I don't need them ploughing into me. I was on the M4 a couple of weeks ago in the outside lane overtaking and I obviously didn't see the Merc coming because he was moving at Mach 2, but I swear I jumped becuase I thought there was a middle aged gentleman sat in my back seat. Never had anyone got that close to me, even in a car park. He wouldn't have even seen my brake lights because they were covered by the grill of his E class (which I saw was caved in when he went past - I wonder how that happened?).
Still easier to spot now that they are mostly driving white cars.
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| I've been thinking about taking my advanced driving test for a while now.
I've been driving for nineteen years so I'm really overdue a refresher, I've just had a look and at £139 it looks pretty reasonable.
Plus, I'm thirty eight in January, it's high time a started wearing driving gloves and leaving a Panama hat on the parcel shelf.
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| Quote ="Sandra The Terrorist"I've been thinking about taking my advanced driving test for a while now.'"
Which one would that be?
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| Quote ="Horatio Yed"A compulsory set amount of hours before you can apply for test with a tick off system that shows you've had a lesson in most weathers/conditions ie Bright Sunshine, rain, icy or snow conditions, night time driving, rush hour.
A longer test
Skid pan training
Compulsory motorway training
---------------------------
On passing your test draconian rules for the first 2 years
No car over a 1.3L and fixed limit on BHP output (stops souped up 1.3 death traps) for 2 years.
Blameworthy accidents in first 2 years means having to go for an assessment on your driving and possible license revocation if not satisfactory.
Keep the 6 points rule.
Telemetric insurance.
----------------------------------
10 years after passing and every 10 years there after having to attend a one day driving class to bring up any new road rules etc and one day driving assessment only for the basis of ironing out faults and bad habits that may have crept in .'"
Such a radical shake up should require that anyone pre-that type of test to also take that test before being given back their license otherwise it's simply a waste of time! Hell we have people on the roads who have never passed ANY test!
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| Quote ="Horatio Yed"I was in a bad accident in 2009 i'd just bought a new car, i went round to show it to my mate, on the way home with my wife a woman overtook a car on a bend and hit me head on at 40mph, i've never been the same since physically and mentally and it's made me look at driving completely differently, it's made me realise tbh that it doesn't matter how safe i am as long as their are idiots on the road, i'm always at risk.
I drive as safe as i can though as i feel it gives me a fraction more time to react should anything happen outside my control.'"
Terrible, there really are some utter t*****s on the road. The list is endless when it comes to complaining about peoples driving habits, but overtaking without care can be fatal. Sickening.
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| Quote ="cod'ead"On the subject of uninsured drivers, I wouldn't wait until they could supply evidence that the vehicle is insured to get it out of the compound. Unless they could categorically prove that their vehicle was insured at the time they were stopped, then crush it, simple as. There are more than enough high-end & luxury cars being driven uninsured and it shouldn't matter who the driver is or what vehicle he drives. If it's uninsured, it becomes a little cube.'"
I don't see the point of crushing the car, you just destroy a perfectly good car. Why not confiscate the car, sell it on to someone else and put the amount raised in to a fund to compensate those injured or bereaved as a result of the actions of uninsured drivers?
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| Quote ="Horatio Yed"I was in a bad accident in 2009 i'd just bought a new car, i went round to show it to my mate, on the way home with my wife a woman overtook a car on a bend and hit me head on at 40mph, i've never been the same since physically and mentally and it's made me look at driving completely differently, it's made me realise tbh that it doesn't matter how safe i am as long as their are idiots on the road, i'm always at risk.
I drive as safe as i can though as i feel it gives me a fraction more time to react should anything happen outside my control.'"
My sister was very nearly killed in a similar incident on New Year's Eve 1996ish. She had driven to a party and left early to get her house ready for a do she was hosting the next day. Some young lad in his dad's car overtook on a bend and hit her head on doing about 80 in a 30. He was driving some great big fuel guzzler that took the impact fairly well, she was in a 1.0 Citroen AX, which virtually lost its front end, flipped a few times and landed upside down. He fled the scene. He even had 2 lanes on his sides of the road.
Fortunately a taxi driver had seen it and stopped. He found my sister pinned upside down with the seatbelt twisted round her neck - by some miracle he had a penknife and managed to cut her free before she choked to death. Even now, 15 years on, she has flashbacks and suffers from depression and panic attacks - that's not even mentioning the months in hospital, and several operations and pins she had inserted in both shattered legs.
The lad responsible has never shown in court. He fled back to the family home in Pakistan.
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Advanced for me is simply developing your driving and then developing some more, and more, and more.
RoSPA, IAM, DIAmond all do this type of work.
The one i would recommend [url=http://www.roadar.org/drivers/test/grading.htmRoSPA[/url.
As far as i am concerned its the best one.
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Advanced for me is simply developing your driving and then developing some more, and more, and more.
RoSPA, IAM, DIAmond all do this type of work.
The one i would recommend [url=http://www.roadar.org/drivers/test/grading.htmRoSPA[/url.
As far as i am concerned its the best one.
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| Quote ="Stealth Comic"I don't see the point of crushing the car, you just destroy a perfectly good car. Why not confiscate the car, sell it on to someone else and put the amount raised in to a fund to compensate those injured or bereaved as a result of the actions of uninsured drivers?'"
Because if such a system were to be set up, you can guarantee that some 2@ would be getting kick-backs and others making a mint from it. Do some research on what happens when HMRC impound vehicles for smuggling baccy, the average sale price is mindblowing. Better to send the message out that nobody benefits.
EDIT: In fact don't bother, I've done the checking for you. According to a note in the [url=http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/aboutus/annual-reports-accounts/annual-report-10-11.pdf?view=Binary2010-2011 accounts of UKBA:[/url
[iThe agency also seized assets at the border. Tobacco and illegal substances are destroyed but [uthe agency did raise £184k (2009-10: £432k) from the sale of seized vehicles[/u with all proceeds going to HM Treasury.[/i
Now they admit to seizing an average of 5000 vehicles per year, you do the maths
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| Quote ="Cronus"The lad responsible has never shown in court. He fled back to the family home in Pakistan.'"
I'm usually very liberal minded but the penalties handed out to repeat & serious traffic offenders is pathetic. Vehicle drivers, even where death is caused as a result, very rarely get a prison sentence.
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| Quote ="guess who"Advanced for me is simply developing your driving and then developing some more, and more, and more.
'"
So people would continually be forking out for a driving lesson, then another one, then another one.... where does it end? There's only one winner in that scenario.........
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| Quote ="guess who"Advanced for me is simply developing your driving and then developing some more, and more, and more.
RoSPA, IAM, DIAmond all do this type of work.
The one i would recommend [url=http://www.roadar.org/drivers/test/grading.htmRoSPA[/url.
As far as i am concerned its the best one.'"
Do normal driving instructors prepare candidates for this sort of thing and how much is a lesson today?
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| Quote ="Robbo"So people would continually be forking out for a driving lesson, then another one, then another one.... where does it end? There's only one winner in that scenario.........'"
Apart from the insurance industry (and as a consequence everyone who takes out insurance), the emergency services, the NHS and any individual who has suffered personal loss through a motor accident you mean?
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| Quote ="cod'ead"Apart from the insurance industry (and as a consequence everyone who takes out insurance), the emergency services, the NHS and any individual who has suffered personal loss through a motor accident you mean?'"
I agree, There would be less accidents and less deaths as a consequence, which can only be a good thing, but it wont solve the problem, There will still be all the other idiots who cause accidents by selfishly and very knowingly drive dangerously. Regardless of how much training they've had. I know a wagon driver who had spent years driving all over Europe, had done practically every driving course there was, and he still drove like an absolute d1ck, attitudes need to be changed aswell as knowledge.
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| Quote ="Robbo"I know a wagon driver who had spent years driving all over Europe, had done practically every driving course there was, and he still drove like an absolute d1ck, attitudes need to be changed aswell as knowledge.'"
I don't know of any other industry that would allow someone to take charge of >£100k worth of truck, trailer and load and let them loose on the road, on the evidence of possession of an HGV licence. I know there are many professional hauliers out there who have their own in-house training and assessment systems and others who sub-contract such work. But equally there are many who don't and once the driver has left the depot, apart from mobile phone contact, they have absolutely no idea what he's up to until he's either involved in an incident, gets nicked or they review his tacho records.
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| Quote ="Saddened!"Bravo Sir. Most people would argue till they were blue in the face that they are better at driving than anyone, we've got a few on this thread who believe their training was better than anyone else's. It's refreshing to hear someone admit they are not Mr Perfect Driver.'"
Agree with your sentiment. I personally would never claim my driving to be any more than relatively decent, and I think the mentality of thinking you're a great driver can often lead to being a poor one, as it can contribute to overconfidence and a too casual attitude.
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| Quote ="Robbo"I agree that more should be done to educate drivers before giving them a license. I was lucky in that In my last job I spent a lot of time In HGV's as a passenger, and had drivers giving me lots of advice aswell as what I could see for myself on a daily basis. So when I did got on the motorway for the first time ( I had a HGV Driver with me who used to be an instructor) I understood the "laws" of the motorway and how to safely drive on them, So it shocks me when I think the majority of young people who have just passed their test are going out on the motorway for the first time without experienced people with them and no idea of what they are doing. Infact I see countless people driving on the motorway who arent always younger drivers sticking in the middle lane oblivious to how dangerous that can actually be.
Although as much as you can increase standards of driving instructing it still won't stop the d1cks who drive around cutting people up, over taking when they shouldn't be, under taking, speeding and all the rest of it. Better knowledge can stop some deaths, but there's a lot of cases where it is simply peoples attitudes and idiotic driving that causes "accidents" rather than them not knowing how to drive. Earlier this year 2 men where killed near me crossing a dual carriage way, a car in the outside lane slowed to let the 2 men across the road but the car behind decided to undertake the car and as he did the 2 men where killed. It wasn't a shock to anyone round here when it was reported that the driver was a young lad well known for screwing his modified escort around the area. It was an accident waiting to happen. There are too many drivers who just simply don't have any courtesy for other people using the road and will do anything to get where they are going 30 seconds earlier...and this is imo what causes so many accidents. I guess the police hands are tied tho, =#0000FFTheres only so many speed cameras they can put up and unless they are actually there to see people driving dangerously then people will continue to get away with it and will carry on driving that way.'"
I would just say on this point that I think speed cameras are only a tiny part of the answer. There are so many problems on the road that cannot be picked up this way, but I agree that the police's hands are largely tied with a lot of it because they simply don't have the manpower. I find it frustrating that driving like an idiot most often goes unpunished so long as people know where the areas to slow down for are, and think that it is these drivers who are more dangerous than those creeping over the speed limit in front of a camera. I don't claim to know what the solution is, though.
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| Quote ="Robbo"So people would continually be forking out for a driving lesson, then another one, then another one.... where does it end? There's only one winner in that scenario.........'"
I am quite old and have been driving since I was 21.
Last year, I got done for 38mph in a 30mph limit.
I was given the option of a fine and points or paying the same as the fine to do a one-day course (and no points), so I did the course.
I learned a lot from that course, the videos were a very salutary lesson and I drive differently now.
In 30 limits I used to (ahem) do about 35, now I usually do about 25.
Plus I think there's a valid case for slowing it down even more in some areas.
When you've seen the genuine film of the kid hitting the bonnet, being tossed over the roof of the car, hitting the boot and then the road ... and then laying still in the road ... even though the driver had slowed to 30 just beforehand ... well, basically, little kids don't think, we must think for them.
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| Quote ="Robbo"... but it wont solve the problem, There will still be all the other idiots who cause accidents by selfishly and very knowingly drive dangerously. Regardless of how much training they've had..... attitudes need to be changed aswell as knowledge.'"
Well, yes, but it's beside the point. Nobody will ever eliminate dickkheads, this is not a reason for not trying. We simply do not throw enough resources at dickkhead elimination, and instead (as others have pointed out) the motor-insurance-premium-payer and the taxpayer between them end up paying a multi-billion pound bill.
Quote ="carl_spackler"Agree with your sentiment. I personally would never claim my driving to be any more than relatively decent, and I think the mentality of thinking you're a great driver can often lead to being a poor one, as it can contribute to overconfidence and a too casual attitude.'"
This is not the way I look at it. I would never claim to be a great driver, because for one thing, having been trained in advanced driving and spending every mile on the road putting what you've learned into practice only highlights to you how hazardous the roads are, and how easy it is to come to grief even if technically you have done nothing wrong. I would however strongly claim to be a better driver than most, simply because as a result of advanced driving training and actively trying to put those techniques into place every journey means that I know I am consciously actively looking for things which I know most other road users are not, and I am actively trying to concentrate not just on the few yards of tarmac ahead of me but the whole of the environment, which again I know most other drivers are not.
This does not make me "a great driver" but it does make me better than any driver who is not doing these things, which is, sadly, the majority. OTOH, any driver who did the same training, and wanted to learn and put into practice exactly the same techniques, could do so. So to me, being a driver as good as I am is not because there is anything special about me, anybody could potentially do it, they (a) just need to want to do it and (b) be properly trained in how to do it.
As an example yesterday evening I was outside a bus lane, and at the end of the bus lane I started to drift over to the left hand lane. From the other direction there was a motorcycle which was on the centre white line, wanting to turn right, into a minor road on my left. As I moved out of the right hand lane I realised that an idiot ( a young lass driving a BMW saloon as it turned out) had decided to put her foot down and pull around me, heading for the right turn lane at the approaching lights. This meant she was straddling the white line, was accelerating, and was going to take the motorcyclist out. So I decided to brake as sharply as I dare without actually standing on the brakes, with no time to check whether the vehicle behind was too close as I felt I had no choice but to give the poor basstard on the bike a chance, he shot forward in front of me and the silly bitch in the Beemer missed his back end by inches as she sailed past.
The person behind me was thankfully paying attention and stopped behind me no problem. I had weighed up the alternatives though and preferred the prospect of a bent back bumper to a mangled motorcyclist.
Miss deBeemer then came to a halt about 30 yards down the road in the right turn queue. I slowly drove forward and wound my window down and had a chat. She was oblivious. She had no idea there had ever been a motorcyclist even in existence and was having none of it at all.
I would suggest that any of the people on this thread that take their driving seriously could have equally detected and thus avoided this accident-waiting-to-happen. It is only a question of paying attention to what is happening around you and driving on the basis that there are thousands of idiots all around you so you need to keep an eye out for them.
She could have done an advanced course and if she had been paying attention to the road ahead, and actively thinking about what she was doing, we would never have had this situation. In her case, as she wasn't an archetypal boy racer dickkhead, it is a prime example of a driver not up to the job, but who [icould[/i have been easily trained to be up to the job. That would only leave the issue of whether she had the personal commitment to try to keep up to those standards, but there is no reason in principle why she shouldn't, and certainly could if she wanted to. If somebody showed her a video of what she had nearly done I expect she'd be mortified.
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| This is not a sexist comment but woman are the worst drivers, i say this from personal experience of being on the road for long periods in the past, Yes woman take less risks as a whole and seem to have less accidents but woman's awareness of their whole surroundings is frankly shocking, my wife is also a professional driver and completely agrees with this, she says woman don't cause accidents but you they do create traffic which causes problems that lead to accidents.
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| Quote ="carl_spackler"I would just say on this point that I think speed cameras are only a tiny part of the answer. There are so many problems on the road that cannot be picked up this way, but I agree that the police's hands are largely tied with a lot of it because they simply don't have the manpower. I find it frustrating that driving like an idiot most often goes unpunished so long as people know where the areas to slow down for are, and think that it is these drivers who are more dangerous than those creeping over the speed limit in front of a camera. I don't claim to know what the solution is, though.'"
In all honesty I don't think there are any solutions that would be easy or cheap to implement.
There is nothing more infuriating than seeing someone cutting in or driving selfishly and dangerously because "they are so much better than everyone else and have no need to wait"
I would personally love it if there was some form of traffic officer at every junction or even cameras getting video evidence of dangerous driving which can then later be used against the perpetrator, People would atleast then know they are being watched and won't get away with it, But the logistics of it mean it could never happen without an absolute fortune being spent on the said officers. Always does my head in when you see a driver slow down and start driving sensibly as soon as a police car is around who 50 yards up the road was driving like an absolute maniac.
The smart boxes that have already been mentioned if made compulsory would give people a financial incentive to drive more safely but again, if someone can afford a car with a powerful engine, then the cost of their insurance isn't going to be enough to slow them down.
If only there was some form of Traffic Cop Super Hero.....
Quote ="El Barbudo"I am quite old and have been driving since I was 21.
Last year, I got done for 38mph in a 30mph limit.
I was given the option of a fine and points or paying the same as the fine to do a one-day course (and no points), so I did the course.
I learned a lot from that course, the videos were a very salutary lesson and I drive differently now.
In 30 limits I used to (ahem) do about 35, now I usually do about 25.
Plus I think there's a valid case for slowing it down even more in some areas.
When you've seen the genuine film of the kid hitting the bonnet, being tossed over the roof of the car, hitting the boot and then the road ... and then laying still in the road ... even though the driver had slowed to 30 just beforehand ... well, basically, little kids don't think, we must think for them.'"
I actually think these courses are good, and are proven to change peoples attitudes to speeding. My step dad went on one, and It also changed his driving habits. It's just a shame that it takes someone having to be caught speeding in the first place, It surely can't be so hard to fit this sort of course in with the current test and highway code examination (which if its anything like when i did mine is a joke btw) that people have to go through already.
Quote ="Horatio Yed"This is not a sexist comment but '"
but what? but it is?.... I actually agree with you but It's an unfair generalisation.
there may be a lot of women who drive without any awareness and it is pretty shocking, but there's plenty of drivers out there who are not women who drive in exactly the same "own world" way. Now you undoubtedly have more experience of the roads than I do but statistically women can't be the worst drivers can they? otherwise they wouldn't have the low premiums that they have? My grandad is due to retake his test now because he is at the age where he needs to retake, and I am actually scared to get a lift in a car with him sometimes because of his slow reactions and "awareness" and understanding of whats going on around him.
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| Men's problems when driving is arrogance women's is awareness, i saw something which i can't find on my mobile internet relating to how men and women are wired up in the grey matter effecting the way the perceive the world around them when driving. In my eyes both are dangerous, obviously though me as a layman come across as sexist, i admit it does and although not everyone of either sex fall in to either of those problems it sits for vast swathes of drivers. Sometimes biology actually explains things that go against touchy PC language. If no white guy or woman has ever run under 10 seconds is that racist and sexist? It's something to do with spatial awareness.
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