Myth.

People working in the public sector simply want their local authority to honour the terms and conditions that were written into their contracts, hardly unrealistic.

Translation - I didn't read it properly just jumped in but I am not big enough to admit it - so I'll try some diversion tactics!!

I am a mod after all!!

You know exactly what I am talking about

You still haven't re-read what you typed have you.

He has also still to acknowledge a single instance - and by god, it's a rapidly rising number - where he's posted utter rubbish because his knee-jerk exactions mean he can't read properly or he's just plain wrong.

I'm puzzled by your fixation with posters' modding or admin roles on this site, when they're acting as contributors to a discussion, not mods.


It's suggestive of something, just not sure what …

If anybody really wrote that in the Indy, they deserve sacking for incompetence. Average salary across the public sector is higher than average salary across the private sector, true.

But …

this is because the private sector contains many jobs on minimum wage alone, the public sector doesn't; many low paid jobs (such as cleaning) have been moved from the public sector to the private sector, with obvious effects on the two averages; public services include a higher proportion of gruduate and professional-qualification jobs than the private sector.

But, if compare like for like (ie people with similar qualifications) private sector employment invariably pays more.



Ah … I see what you've done: collective pension schemes are more cost effective than personal defined contribution pension plans, where a larger proportion of your money goes to the fund managers in fees and your pension is not paid by any pension scheme, but relies on buying an annuity at the time you retire - which is the more expensive option.

So you've compared apples and chair legs and are pretending you can draw some sort of valid conclusion.

Essentially, as with your OP, your talkng b*llks again.

It's [url=http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&cp=13&gs_id=1s&xhr=t&q=christina+patterson&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=christina+pat&aq=0&aqi=g4&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=df08721280e0dd7e&biw=1440&bih=710Christina Patterson[/url mate. As a former director of the Poetry Society, and literary programmer at London's Southbank Centre, surely she's ideally placed to give an insight into the public/private sector argument.

I must be honest, when I first read VR's post, I fully expected to find that the authur in question was Nigel's lad, [url=http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/dominic-lawson/dominic-lawson-you-think-a-greece-cant-happen-here-wrong-6258684.htmlDominic Lawson[/url.

Ah … an article who's opening sentence would have us believe that Gordon Brown was still chancellor in the first four months of 2010. Oh yes, there's something to rely on when constructing and argument …

TBH, some in the private sector have completely unrealistic expectations (and understanding) of the public sector too

There really are some people who confirm their idiocy by spouting forth

Times have changed, the present position is unsustainable and contracts need rewriting.

Many businesses have had to renegotiate staff contracts or make redundancies. The public sector is no different.

In the good times do people get to renegotiate their contracts again? When the recession is over will these conditions be giving back?

Or is this temporary blip in the economic cycle (its like people think this is the first recession ever) being used to take from the majority and give back to the minority?

Claims like this make me wonder whether the person writing them is either exceedingly greedy as to not care about everybody else whilst they live a life of luxury or so stupid as to support those living high on the hog to their detriment.

That particular untruth has been dealt with numerous times on this thread. If you're going to keep blithely repeating it, you need to back it up with evidence - or at least an argument.

And as a public sector worker can I just say we've been renogotiating certain aspects of our contracts over many years!

As examples, for my LA, these include:
mileage payments
payments for essential car users allowance
hours of work
general pay and grading
agreeing to take unpaid leave
pensions
etc

I'm a public sector worker who due to re organisation is about to see his income reduced by 15%.

I actually think I'm one of those staff more prepared to take industrial action...over the last 20 years I've been on strike for 3 days so hardly the actions of some left wing revolutionary!

Finally, maybe it's about time we stopped the race to the bottom of the pensions barrel and started supporting each other to ensure we all have decent pensions along with decent pay and conditions!

At some point in the next 20 or so years some government of whatever colour has to address the state pension issue and not just tinker around with it at its current level.

Current thinking (for the last ten or so years) has been that eventually there will be no state pension, my own daughters are not expecting there to be such a thing when they retire - this is not a workable scenario for as anyone who has tried to invest in a genuinely "private" pension (ie its not partly funded by your employer but only by yourself and a bank or similar pretend to "invest" it for you) will know, this type of "investment" is like throwing confetti in the air on a blustery day, you haven't a clue where it will land and if, for example, you are 65 today and your private pension scheme was required right now, then frankly you'd be fooked.

Its never going to work until we get back to the understanding that pensions should be at a level where a retirement lifestyle is possible and they should be provided as a state benefit/entitlement and not an investment.

Damned right.

Quote ="McLaren_Field"At some point in the next 20 or so years some government of whatever colour has to address the state pension issue and not just tinker around with it at its current level. Current thinking (for the last ten or so years) has been that eventually there will be no state pension, my own daughters are not expecting there to be such a thing when they retire - this is not a workable scenario for as anyone who has tried to invest in a genuinely "private" pension (ie its not partly funded by your employer but only by yourself and a bank or similar pretend to "invest" it for you) will know, this type of "investment" is like throwing confetti in the air on a blustery day, you haven't a clue where it will land and if, for example, you are 65 today and your private pension scheme was required right now, then frankly you'd be fooked. Its never going to work until we get back to the understanding that pensions should be at a level where a retirement lifestyle is possible and they should be provided as a state benefit/entitlement and not an investment.'" Interesting EU comparison at eoin-clarke.blogspot.com/2011/11 ... ne-of.html

Quote ="McLaren_Field"At some point in the next 20 or so years some government of whatever colour has to address the state pension issue and not just tinker around with it at its current level. Current thinking (for the last ten or so years) has been that eventually there will be no state pension, my own daughters are not expecting there to be such a thing when they retire - this is not a workable scenario for as anyone who has tried to invest in a genuinely "private" pension (ie its not partly funded by your employer but only by yourself and a bank or similar pretend to "invest" it for you) will know, this type of "investment" is like throwing confetti in the air on a blustery day, you haven't a clue where it will land and if, for example, you are 65 today and your private pension scheme was required right now, then frankly you'd be fooked. Its never going to work until we get back to the understanding that pensions should be at a level where a retirement lifestyle is possible and they should be provided as a state benefit/entitlement and not an investment.'" Interesting EU comparison at eoin-clarke.blogspot.com/2011/11 ... ne-of.html

Quote ="tb"Interesting EU comparison at eoin-clarke.blogspot.com/2011/11 ... ne-of.html'" Quite a sober read, I don't expect to be able to retire (for financial reasons) until I am 70 years of age but by the time that comes around (15 years) I think it will be the norm, which is very different from the scenario that was painted by NatWest when they sold me two bogus pension schemes 15 years ago, according to them I should be retiring anytime from this year onwards

Quote ="tb"Interesting EU comparison at eoin-clarke.blogspot.com/2011/11 ... ne-of.html'" Quite a sober read, I don't expect to be able to retire (for financial reasons) until I am 70 years of age but by the time that comes around (15 years) I think it will be the norm, which is very different from the scenario that was painted by NatWest when they sold me two bogus pension schemes 15 years ago, according to them I should be retiring anytime from this year onwards