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| Quote ="El Barbudo"I think that would be madness.
There are so many factions involved now that the current bloodbath will look tiny as a Russia v The West war unfolds by proxy and hundreds of thousands of innocent Syrian civilian lives will pay the price of our interference.'"
You're correct on that as it will be the Syrian public who will face the brunt of it all. I'll change it to if the West went after Assad to get rid of him then that wouldn't bother me. |
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Quote ="Dead Man Walking"You're correct on that as it will be the Syrian public who will face the brunt of it all. I'll change it to if the West went after Assad to get rid of him then that wouldn't bother me.'"
Tempting though that might be ... I'm always wondering what will rush to fill the vacuum when a leader is deposed.
France and Britain (and the USA, come to that) have too much previous in terms of devious acts, reneged agreements and plain bad judgement right across the whole of the Levant, from the point when they tried to divide it between them after the Ottomans had picked the wrong side in WWI, right up to allowing Jewish immigration into Palestine.
I thoroughly recommend a book ... "A line in the sand" by James Barr.
This review gives a precis ...
www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 55278.html |
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Quote ="Dead Man Walking"You're correct on that as it will be the Syrian public who will face the brunt of it all. I'll change it to if the West went after Assad to get rid of him then that wouldn't bother me.'"
Tempting though that might be ... I'm always wondering what will rush to fill the vacuum when a leader is deposed.
France and Britain (and the USA, come to that) have too much previous in terms of devious acts, reneged agreements and plain bad judgement right across the whole of the Levant, from the point when they tried to divide it between them after the Ottomans had picked the wrong side in WWI, right up to allowing Jewish immigration into Palestine.
I thoroughly recommend a book ... "A line in the sand" by James Barr.
This review gives a precis ...
www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 55278.html | |
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Whats happening in Syria is very murky, who knows who is actually perpetrating this stuff.
You have to beware though of the vested interests of governments to support "their" champions.
The west is eager to get rid of Assad and put a Western eg US puppet in control of the nation.
Russia on the other hand sees Syria as coming under its sphere of influence and is seeking to protect it.
Hence our news reports already appear to have pinned the blame on Assads regime even though as of yet there is little to no proof that they did it.
Some earlier comments on this site appear to be under the impression that the rebels don't possess nerve agents. Yet
the UN have been reporting that they have been using Sarin gas.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... s-use.html
www.todayonline.com/syria-rebels ... ons-russia
english.alarabiya.net/en/News/mi ... tack-.html
www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... kcmgxzYO4Q
This Israeli report says rebels captured what appeared to be chemical weapons missile launchers. If they have captured the missiles then its fair to say they have the capability to launch chemical weapons attacks
www.israelnationalnews.com/News/ ... hZoIHdwa70
This report in Yahoo makes interesting reading as it comments on documents that indicate that the USA was organising via a British security company for rebels to launch a gas attack on Syria so that it could be blamed on the Assad regime.
in.news.yahoo.com/us-backed-plan ... 48224.html
A lot more detail is provided on this link
www.infowars.com/syrian-chemical ... n-advance/
AS the old adage goes "the first casualty of war is THE TRUTH."
Everything we read about regardless of its source, has to be treated as Propaganda, until proven otherwise. |
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Whats happening in Syria is very murky, who knows who is actually perpetrating this stuff.
You have to beware though of the vested interests of governments to support "their" champions.
The west is eager to get rid of Assad and put a Western eg US puppet in control of the nation.
Russia on the other hand sees Syria as coming under its sphere of influence and is seeking to protect it.
Hence our news reports already appear to have pinned the blame on Assads regime even though as of yet there is little to no proof that they did it.
Some earlier comments on this site appear to be under the impression that the rebels don't possess nerve agents. Yet
the UN have been reporting that they have been using Sarin gas.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... s-use.html
www.todayonline.com/syria-rebels ... ons-russia
english.alarabiya.net/en/News/mi ... tack-.html
www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... kcmgxzYO4Q
This Israeli report says rebels captured what appeared to be chemical weapons missile launchers. If they have captured the missiles then its fair to say they have the capability to launch chemical weapons attacks
www.israelnationalnews.com/News/ ... hZoIHdwa70
This report in Yahoo makes interesting reading as it comments on documents that indicate that the USA was organising via a British security company for rebels to launch a gas attack on Syria so that it could be blamed on the Assad regime.
in.news.yahoo.com/us-backed-plan ... 48224.html
A lot more detail is provided on this link
www.infowars.com/syrian-chemical ... n-advance/
AS the old adage goes "the first casualty of war is THE TRUTH."
Everything we read about regardless of its source, has to be treated as Propaganda, until proven otherwise. | |
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| Quote ="The Chair Maker"...
Everything we read about regardless of its source, has to be treated as Propaganda, until proven otherwise.'"
Kind of makes your posting of seven links to extensive reading material a bit pointless, then.
Personally I'm happy enough to make up my own mind from the information I've seen, which is not to claim certainty, but then I recognise that we will never, ever have certainty, ever, at all, ever. So treating everything as propaganda until "proven otherwise" will mean you had to sit on so many fences, permanently, your arrse would be made of splinters.
I would say that we just need to be aware that anything MAY be propaganda, and that of course MOST stuff is written to some extent with some agenda even if not propaganda as such. But waiting for "proof" of every single thing? Utterly pointless.
Even if you ignore the fact that the biggest, most blatant "proof" for one man is just bollox for another. Just one for instance, I remember watching with my own eyes a passenger jet fly into the Twin Towers. Plenty still say there is no "proof" it ever happened. |
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So, we lob a couple of cruise missiles into Syria to show our abhorrence at this latest example of Arab genocide. Then what? We fire off a few more from HMS Tireless, which is already on station in the med, and everyone has a warm glow of a job well done? Perhaps we should take a moment to ponder on the consequences of sticking our noses into what is a particularly vicious regional Muslim dispute is in order.
Arabs per se, are arguably the cruellest race on Earth. Do we hear of any outraged protests, or the call to arms from any of the neighbours? I think not.
Personally, I'd let them get on with it. After all, it is surely a simple demonstration of Allah's Will. We can salve our consciences with massive aid shipments once they get tired of killing each other.
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| Quote ="rumpelstiltskin"So, we lob a couple of cruise missiles into Syria to show our abhorrence at this latest example of Arab genocide. Then what? We fire off a few more from HMS Tireless, which is already on station in the med, and everyone has a warm glow of a job well done? Perhaps we should take a moment to ponder on the consequences of sticking our noses into what is a particularly vicious regional Muslim dispute is in order...'"
Agreed, in the sense that poking our noses in will likely make it all a lot worse.
Quote ="rumpelstiltskin"Arabs per se, are arguably the cruellest race on Earth. Do we hear of any outraged protests, or the call to arms from any of the neighbours? I think not...'"
Racist claptrap.
Quote ="rumpelstiltskin"Personally, I'd let them get on with it. After all, it is surely a simple demonstration of Allah's Will. We can salve our consciences with massive aid shipments once they get tired of killing each other.'"
Cynical claptrap. |
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| Quote ="El Barbudo"
Racist claptrap.
Cynical claptrap.'"
Feel free to provide some evidence to the contrary my little po faced chum..... |
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| Quote ="rumpelstiltskin"Feel free to provide some evidence to the contrary my little po faced chum.....'"
Feel free to apply a little intellectual rigour and back up your assertions. |
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Why are we drawing up an "action-plan" at all anyway? How does this compare with the "action plans" of, say, Brazil, Burkina Fasso, or Finland? On what basis do we have any business drawing up any plans at all?
As a suggestion, now that we have sorted them all out, why not delegate Syria to the armed forces of Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan? It must be at least as much to do with them as it is with us.
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We still don't know who the perpetrator is. I'd wholeheartedly guess it was Assad but then when the UK and US Governments come out and blame Assad it makes me think twice, I don't particularly believe much that our and America's governments spout. Be funny if Russia smashed a missile into a US ship and said "we told you not to get involved".
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| Quote ="100% Wire"We still don't know who the perpetrator is. I'd wholeheartedly guess it was Assad but then when the UK and US Governments come out and blame Assad it makes me think twice, I don't particularly believe much that our and America's governments spout. Be funny if Russia smashed a missile into a US ship and said "we told you not to get involved".'"
I just can't understand why Assad would have the need to use chemical weapons when he's been told it's the 'red line'. The opposition have a lot more to gain out of the rest of the world thinking it was Assad. Never underestimate the actions of a desperate man though.
I think Obama made the statement about chemical weapons and now has to start sabre rattling otherwise he and his party look weak. This should only escalate under instruction from the UN otherwise it could end up as the battle ground for a US-Russia-China war. |
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I find this whole 'brotherhood of arms' (USA & Britain) aiming a strike at Syria worrying
•Who are we aiming at? Lets not forget there is two rival groups at war not just one side
•Do we have actual evidence rather than credible evidence of weapons used by Government forces?
•If we do strike, what are we going to achieve? We may overthrow Assad eventually but who is going to then control the country?! The rebels?!
This has bad news written all over it with far reaching consequences in the pipeline. Plus I honestly think other countries will not stand for it (Russia & Iran) leading to consequences from them.
Scary times ahead
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If Mr Cameron really can't stand by and let this happen without getting involved I for one will stand fully behind him and other Westminster cronies who can't stand by getting on a plane, going over there and sorting it out.
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It's not all bad news, if there is military action, Diane Abbot has said she would consider resigning from being an MP
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| Quote ="100% Wire"It's not all bad news, if there is military action, Diane Abbot has said she would consider resigning from being an MP'"
Is resigning from the front bench the same as resigning as an MP? |
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| Quote ="100% Wire"It's not all bad news, if there is military action, Diane Abbot has said she would consider resigning from being an MP'"
She was a whole lot more weaselly than that when Evan Davies asked her this morning. |
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| Quote ="cod'ead"Is resigning from the front bench the same as resigning as an MP?'"
Ah, I must have mis-read. So what does her threat to quit the front bench even mean? She wants to protest but not lose her privileges? I guess she's just had enough of white people playing Divide and Rule. |
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We're getting the band back together.
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| Quote ="100% Wire"Ah, I must have mis-read. So what does her threat to quit the front bench even mean? She wants to protest but not lose her privileges? I guess she's just had enough of white people playing Divide and Rule.'"
TBH I no longer know which portfolio she shadows, so I seriously doubt she'd be missed much at the dispatch box. Although by all accounts she does work hard in her constituency
She should stick to cozying up to Portillo on This Week |
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Simple, it's nothing to do with us, leave it.
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| Quote ="vbfg"We're getting the band back together.'"
On a mission from God? |
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| So, Call Me Dave and 14 pints were all geared up for their Dr Strangelove moment, Parliament recalled to rubber-stamp their attack on Syria, until a phone conversation with Miliband at 5.15pm. The Labour leader said he would not give carte blanche approval for military intervention until the UN inspectors had at least reported back.
Rug pulled from underneath him, Cameron reverts to type and throws a hissy fit with No 10 and the Foreign Office describing Miliband as [url=http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article3854838.ece"a f****** c*** and a copper-bottomed s***"[/url
In one afternoon, Miliband has shown more statesmanship than Cameron has displayed all Summer. Suddenly Cameron goes from his Churchill moment to a sad parody of Anthony Eden 
If Ed can keep his head in this afternoon's debate, it should make interesting viewing/listening |
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| Quote ="Lawrie L"I find this whole 'brotherhood of arms' (USA & Britain) aiming a strike at Syria worrying
•Who are we aiming at? =#0000FFLets not forget there is two rival groups at war not just one side
•Do we have actual evidence rather than credible evidence of weapons used by Government forces?
•If we do strike, what are we going to achieve? We may overthrow Assad eventually but who is going to then control the country?! The rebels?!
This has bad news written all over it with far reaching consequences in the pipeline. Plus I honestly think other countries will not stand for it (Russia & Iran) leading to consequences from them
Scary times ahead'"
Indeed.
We must also remember that there are factions involved who would easily turn upon each other once Assad had been deposed, it's not just one side against another.
e.g. Do we really want to side with or assist Al Quaeda against Assad? |
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The Speaker of the Syrian Parliament has written to John Bercow to the effect that Syria will sue those responsible in British courts if the UK attacks.
Assad may have no defence to our Cruise missiles, but given that we would be unlikely to have any defence to such a claim (that i can think of) if any strike was not mandated by the UN, that could be a fair few bob for the beleaguered UK taxpayer to find I should think.
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If we attack Syria that's the Tory party added to the list of a party I'll never vote for joining Labour and the BNP.
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