That says it all. The leadership lets its members down as soon as they are given airtime.

So, I have got this right Minty? You pay your tax and you have "beliefs" and so your conscience is clear? You do not do anything practical to help the people you purport to have empathy for and care for? You do however like to tell anyone who will listen how honourable and caring you are and how all ills are down to others, provided those others vote Tory and / or run successful businesses? I suggest you stand for election as a leader of a major union.

Once upon a time Dally was worth reading.

It now seems that sadly he's become nothing more than a troll hell bent on provoking Mintball.


Ah well, it's worth reading, but he's become a pastiche of himself recently. As I've repeatedly pointed out, he'll start a thread - usually linked to the Mail for some reason - and then runs away, only returning to avoid answering questions and to just use weasley words to try and pretend he has some sort of intelligence, something that the ever-mounting evidence is showing to be a lie.
His sole reason for existance is to start fights from behind his keyboard... I'm still surprised Minty bites so often.


Bless him.

On the other hand where are the rest of the speeches from the rest of the congress, what other motions did they pass, what other topics did they discuss, what other wrongs did they right - you only hear 30 seconds at most on news bulletins and in opinion paper reports, why do they only focus on the negative ?

As explained some time ago, I tend to start threads that I feel could be interesting subjects for discussion. To start off giving my views evet time would seem self-indulgent. Indded, I often do not have a strong view either way. When some says "This house believes...." they are not normally expected to then argue a case themselves.

Which weasly words do you refer to? I am always straightforward. I type in a hurry and often inaccurately, no time to be weasly like others on here like to be.

Fair point - but they presumably don't see what they say as negative.

Fortunately you didn't get provoked by him on the A&E thread, eh?



If he's a troll, then he's an incredibly consistent one.

Otherwise he's just painfully stupid, in a predictably [iDaily Mail[/i sort of way.

So what's your personal experience of trades unions?

That's over and above the rights and benefits you have that have been won by unions and the labour movement over the years.

So you noticed my socialist phase last week then?

No.
You don't know what it means.

That's me and everyone else then.

Quote ="Mintball"So what's your personal experience of trades unions? '" Not sure about Dally. But today I personally experienced reading this article and was amazed at the amount of money some of these guys get paid. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19584508 Champagne socialists?

Quote ="Mintball"So what's your personal experience of trades unions? '" Not sure about Dally. But today I personally experienced reading this article and was amazed at the amount of money some of these guys get paid. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19584508 Champagne socialists?

Quote ="The Video Ref"Not sure about Dally. But today I personally experienced reading this article and was amazed at the amount of money some of these guys get paid. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19584508 Champagne socialists?'" Well they justify their salary by virtue of how well paid their members are. Minty herself made the point recently. Oh, hang on though, they reckon their members need to go on strike. Perhaps they are self-intersted parasites after all.

Quote ="The Video Ref"Not sure about Dally. But today I personally experienced reading this article and was amazed at the amount of money some of these guys get paid. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19584508 Champagne socialists?'" Well they justify their salary by virtue of how well paid their members are. Minty herself made the point recently. Oh, hang on though, they reckon their members need to go on strike. Perhaps they are self-intersted parasites after all.

Quote ="The Video Ref"Not sure about Dally. But today I personally experienced reading this article and was amazed at the amount of money some of these guys get paid. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19584508 Champagne socialists?'" Why? What should the head of such a large organisation be paid?

Quote ="The Video Ref"Not sure about Dally. But today I personally experienced reading this article and was amazed at the amount of money some of these guys get paid. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19584508 Champagne socialists?'" Why? What should the head of such a large organisation be paid?

Same as their members?

Which ones?

All of 'em.

How much do they get paid? For instance I know the members of a union get an average salary of over £270,000.

Quote ="The Video Ref"Not sure about Dally. But today I personally experienced reading this article and was amazed at the amount of money some of these guys get paid. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19584508 Champagne socialists?'" Well, I don't know where it says that a socialist can't drink champagne: perhaps you could point us to the text? One would, of course, have thought that nothing was too good for the workers, if one were going to pursue that sort of a line. Of course, one could also ask whether they're socialists or social democrats: do they believe in and call for the full nationalisation of all industry, for instance? That sort of actual tenet of socialism, as illustrated by Clause 4 of the Labour Party's constitution – until Tony Blair got rid of it. It would be worth knowing whether you're using words accurately here or simply in a sort of 'I hate such and such and will label it with a word of something else I hate but don't understand properly' way. Now, back to your personal experiences – y'know, actual experiences: not what you read somewhere online. Next thing you know. Dally will be proposing that CEOs only get paid what their staff get paid. That'll upset the likes of Bob Diamond or the head of Tesco, whose hugely profitable company cannot even pay it's cleaners a living wage.

Quote ="The Video Ref"Not sure about Dally. But today I personally experienced reading this article and was amazed at the amount of money some of these guys get paid. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19584508 Champagne socialists?'" Well, I don't know where it says that a socialist can't drink champagne: perhaps you could point us to the text? One would, of course, have thought that nothing was too good for the workers, if one were going to pursue that sort of a line. Of course, one could also ask whether they're socialists or social democrats: do they believe in and call for the full nationalisation of all industry, for instance? That sort of actual tenet of socialism, as illustrated by Clause 4 of the Labour Party's constitution – until Tony Blair got rid of it. It would be worth knowing whether you're using words accurately here or simply in a sort of 'I hate such and such and will label it with a word of something else I hate but don't understand properly' way. Now, back to your personal experiences – y'know, actual experiences: not what you read somewhere online. Next thing you know. Dally will be proposing that CEOs only get paid what their staff get paid. That'll upset the likes of Bob Diamond or the head of Tesco, whose hugely profitable company cannot even pay it's cleaners a living wage.

It'd be a start if the John Lewis "workers" agreed to let the John Lewis cleaners be employed and have access to bonuses.

Trade Unions are a relic of a past era. Thankfully their membership numbers are hugely in decline. Hopefully within a generation they just won't exist anymore and we won't have to put up with them spouting their vile socialist e every five minutes.

Quote ="The Video Ref"Not sure about Dally. But today I personally experienced reading this article and was amazed at the amount of money some of these guys get paid. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19584508 Champagne socialists?'" Don't worry. It will all be over soon. www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19521535

Quote ="The Video Ref"Not sure about Dally. But today I personally experienced reading this article and was amazed at the amount of money some of these guys get paid. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19584508 Champagne socialists?'" Don't worry. It will all be over soon. www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19521535

Quote ="Ajw71"Don't worry. It will all be over soon. www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19521535'" As I said, self-serving leaderships turn people off.

Quote ="Ajw71"Don't worry. It will all be over soon. www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19521535'" As I said, self-serving leaderships turn people off.

One of the reasons for the fall in union members is mentioned in that BBC article, the ridding of hundreds of thousands of public service jobs, many of whom were union members, the fact that public service jobs are widely seen as having the best in-job terms and benefits may be just a coincidence of course.

The other, and probably main, reason for the drop in union membership is the move towards temporary workers in the past ten years, a move which is now a tsunami, a desperate rush to shed yourself of your own staff and bring in an agency who will compete with other agencies to get you the numbers on your site at the cheapest possible charge rate - in many workforces the person doesn't matter as long as there are the contracted numbers on the shopfloor every day.

I deal extensively with staff agencies and its a massive industry, and very cut-throat, allegiance to an employer is impossible when you don't work for the company you are currently selling your labour to, allegiance to your agency is impossible when they themselves may lose the contract that you are working on next week and you'll have to shift agencies to keep in work - union membership under those circumstances is a non-starter, you have very little tenure of contract and you're on a wage that is kept deliberately low to keep the agency charge rate low so there is little surplus to pay union fees anyway - the first time that a union approaches an agency then their members will find themselves not being contracted out any more until they leave.

Agency work suits some people.

But its not a long term employment plan.

Unfortunately I fear that its here to stay.

Thank goodness though, Jerry. It'll be a much better world to live in.