So if everything needs a creator who created the creator?

That's one for scientists to discover.

Of course, there's loads of them with nothing to do now gods sorted out cancer and aids.

Pathetic. You made a statement which you were unable to back up and now you're trying to wriggle out of it. Classic Dally. It's like the 'off-site book' all over again.

Dally in "not answering a direct question" shocker.

By your own arguments, only a few posts before this, there is no such choice because your god has already decided everything.

Oh, there's an extent to which trolling is occurring. But his refusal to respond to anything I post – presumably because he has declared that I 'work for Satan' make me suspect that there's a substantial element of actual belief there too.

How much does this Satan chap pay?
Could do with a few hours seeing as I'm kicking my heels around at present.

Hey Kirkstaller i remember you now, i used to watch you with my mates on a saturday afternoon in Wake town ranting in your ecclesiastical ways. you used to have a group who took it in turns. they stood in the corner where they would try to blend in with the public, but the thing that gave them away was they would kep nodding in agreement. God must be laughing his ass off at you muppets. Please try to read the second coming by john niven. It basically says for people just to be nice to each other, nothing else.

The pay is good, but the conditions are hell.

Which is the main message of the Bible. If Christians would simply follow that message, and many do, instead of attempting to run everybody else's lives then they would find a lot more sympathy around the country. Sadly too many Christians follow the latter course rather than the former.

No, the main message of the Bible is to tell us how to be reconciled with God - grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

It is good to follow God's commandments and it certainly pleases him when we do this, but that is not the main message of Christian scripture.

Which is why you consistently misunderstand the Bible and Jesus' teachings, to the extent that you believe you have the right to tell 1 person who he can love and who he can't. That is not the intention of Jesus' teachings, the intent was to be nice to each other. By being nice to someone else you make the world a slightly better place. Again, if Christians would follow that very simple message instead of focussing on the other outdated crap that was inserted into the Bible centuries after the event then I am certain that Christianity would be far more popular and far less derided in this country.

Why is hell so bad?

You've left your body so can't feel the heat.

Hang on, you said it was all pre-determined. So there's really nothing we can do to be 'reconciled with God' - if he decided at the dawn of time that we were going to heaven, we're in. If not, we're screwed no matter what we do. You can't have it both ways.

And it's where all the cool kids go. Who wants to spend an eternity in heaven with tedious s like Kirkstaller?

OK, we'll put that down to "No, you can't enumerate the minorities you were moaning about".
Just for future reference, you understand, for when you make wild statements with no substance again.

If Jesus is God why did he address himself as father?

Because the notion of the Trinity wasn't in his head at the time.
It ws invented later ... despite all the the dubious "inferences" various people claim to derive from the New Testament.

[url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/gay-cure-group-takes-tfl-to-court-over-banned-advert-8514575.htmlNutters banned from advertising their harmful 'therapies'.[/url

From your article:

"Those individuals who are post-gay or ex-gay are a sexual minority suffering discrimination because they are outside the purportedly ‘normative’ homosexual paradigm. It was a mistake to assume these views we were expressing came from entrenched homophobia, and failed to recognise that people who want to walk away from their homosexual feelings are a group in their own right.”

As I argued from the outset - where do you draw the line? Who decides which minorities are OK and eligble to claim discrimination from all corners and which are not and are fair game for discrimination by those who are anti-discrimination?

Additionally, when people use freedom of speech to promote their views but then seek to deny it to others we are getting into dangerous territory.

Who is he saying is being discriminated against ... and by whom?
Sounds like a load of waffle to me.


Well, I AM surprised, that's possibly a fair point.

Except, in this instance, it's not. Anyone who knows anything about the subject - that is, actual doctors and scientists - have repeatedly discredited the idea of 'curing' homosexuality. Indeed, the very idea that it's something that actually requires a 'cure' is both ridiculous and offensive.

So, it's not a freedom of speech issue at all. It's about people promoting a 'therapy' that is not only likely to be psychologically harmful, but that is for a 'condition' that does not require 'therapy' at all. Not only should they not be allowed to advertise such a 'therapy', it should be banned altogether.

See Rock God's comments and ...

Religious fundamentalists themselves should perhaps remember not to attack attack freedom of speech by rioting to close down plays, issuing death threats over [iJerry Springer: The Opera[/i, stopping poetry readings, burning books and issuing more death threats – and oh so many more such delights.

It's not about minorities, you dolt. It's about peddling the idea that, not only is homosexuality a condition that requires a 'cure', but that they have the necessary expertise to deliver that cure. Homosexuality is a natural part of human variation. They might as well be advertising a 'cure' for black skin or ginger hair.